Occupy

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm not sure how Krugman's "stop with the drum circles already" turned into Project Runway: Protest Special. 

The point, to me, was that if you're going to stand up for 99% of the American people, you gain strength by having those people identify with you and your cause.  It's tribal identity politics.  It's perception psychology.

OWS, by the definition of its purposes, shouldn't even have the appearance of a radical, progressive, or minority protest.  It's supposed to be the biggest umbrella ever.  Technically, it's representing roughly 307,890,000 people; people who, for a large part, have negative perceptions of counterculture behaviors.  If OWS truly stands for the 99%, and wants the majority of Americans to get on their side, then they have to appeal to them.  They can't push away middle American values and culture, they have to include them.

YOU SHOULD ALL LOOK PROFESSIONAL AND CLEAN IN YOUR PROTESTS, THEN WHEN YOU GET MACED AT LEAST YOU LOOK PRETTY!!

Actually, yes.  The majority of Americans would have a much different reaction seeing a dozen people in suits getting maced as opposed to a bunch of Burning Man types getting maced.  And that would be exactly the kind of reaction OWS would want: The perception that "it's US getting maced, not THEM".

I've seen teabaggers latch on to the appearance thing, and by extension, liken them to the layabout socialist leeches they think are somehow a threat to the US. Which means, of course, that they support any brutality thrown their way, and maybe they would like to volunteer to help in that. Because who doesn't want to beat up a hippie now and then?

It sucks but perception does go a long way, and of course the media is going to find more entertainment and stirring shit value if they show the hippies and the typical anarchist types rather than someone who looks like they just came out of an office.

And I think it lends credence in another way. It says, hey, maybe I do have a job and am not a freeloader on welfare and I still think this shit is messed up. I'm worried that I'm going to be making the same salary for the next 60 years until I'm dead. Etc, etc...

[LMNO]

To be clear:  I don't think it's right, I don't think it's rational, and it certainly shouldn't matter what OWS is wearing, or how they're passing the time.  The fact they are there should be a very clear statement in itself, and what they look like is irrelevant.

Or it would be, if we were in a rational world where people acted rationally.  But we don't.  So we have to work with the world as we find it.  And that world is full of idealogically territorial monkeys who mistrust anything that looks different from them.  And those monkeys need to be part of the movement if it's going to have any lasting major impact.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

To be clear:  I don't think it's right, I don't think it's rational, and it certainly shouldn't matter what OWS is wearing, or how they're passing the time.  The fact they are there should be a very clear statement in itself, and what they look like is irrelevant.

Or it would be, if we were in a rational world where people acted rationally.  But we don't.  So we have to work with the world as we find it.  And that world is full of idealogically territorial monkeys who mistrust anything that looks different from them.  And those monkeys need to be part of the movement if it's going to have any lasting major impact.

Agreed.

It's very easy for a lot of people to see this



And say, "These people don't represent me or anyone I know."

The message gets lost- instead of thinking, "they are representing me as an economic demographic" they are thinking "these stoners think they have something in common with me."

[East Coast Hustle]

Trip and LMNO covered most of what I was gonna say in regards to Net's idea and Kai's reaction to it, but I gotta ask...

Plus, it makes a good impression on the ladies.

Oops. You were doing okay, up until that line.

And besides, dressing up to go down to the protest isn't "telling the truth". Not even a very good metaphor. Show up in regular clothes. Whatever you were wearing that day. That is the truth. Anything else is putting up a front.

What the hell is this about? First of all, what's wrong with wanting to look good to people whom you want to find you attractive? And do you really think that dressing like a bum when you go to a protest somehow provides more credibility or makes a more powerful and inclusive statement?

That's fucking idiotic.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Also LMNO- im thinking about that line in the chao te ching about the wise spag blending in. Or rogers statement about looking just as all american with a plain black shirt and some jeans.

[Phox]

Trip and LMNO covered most of what I was gonna say in regards to Net's idea and Kai's reaction to it, but I gotta ask...

Plus, it makes a good impression on the ladies.

Oops. You were doing okay, up until that line.

And besides, dressing up to go down to the protest isn't "telling the truth". Not even a very good metaphor. Show up in regular clothes. Whatever you were wearing that day. That is the truth. Anything else is putting up a front.

What the hell is this about? First of all, what's wrong with wanting to look good to people whom you want to find you attractive? And do you really think that dressing like a bum when you go to a protest somehow provides more credibility or makes a more powerful and inclusive statement?

That's fucking idiotic.

No, I'm not saying that he is doing anything wrong by dressing up. I'm just saying that his analogy doesn't work because he is deliberately constructing an image to counter the common perception. Which isn't necessarily "telling the truth". And there's nothing wrong with trying to look good to people whom you find attractive, but he ulterior motive undermines the analogy.

I agree with what he and LMNO have been saying for the most part.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Show up the way you'd show up to work.

If it's not honest, then why bother?

[LMNO]

Also LMNO- im thinking about that line in the chao te ching about the wise spag blending in. Or rogers statement about looking just as all american with a plain black shirt and some jeans.

Chapter 69
Someone who looks like an enemy
will be treated like an enemy.
An idea that confronts
is an idea that will be rejected.
Be subtle, and use your opponent's language;
But not their rules.
Slip by their natural defenses,
and plant seeds of doubt and confusion.
A slowly growing tree will shatter a sidewalk
and the concrete will not notice,
because it was always there.
There are better ways to change someone's mind
than by screaming at them.

Chapter 80
In a place where information is suppressed
and curiosity stifled,
the people will be uncaring, unwise, and not free.
They will rely on tradition as their guides;
They will not make observations,
or try new things,
or experiment,
or play.
They will be suspicious of outsiders
just as they are with new ideas.
Their minds will be as stagnant
as the pond where they dump their garbage.
They are surely as dead as they can be,
though they still draw breath.


Chapter 27
A good mindfuck leaves no reasons;
A good saboteur leaves no evidence;
A good artist leaves new questions;
A good barstool removes much idle speculation;
The perfect prison cell looks like the environment;
A nice tie opens many doors.

So a wise spag knows how to blend in,
and takes their freedom once inside.
They understand the people around them,
and know how to get things done.
This is called "Tweaking the Machine™".

Those who proclaim their individuality by following rebels
are still grey, though their fingernails be black.
Such things bring my palms to my face.

The Machine™ cannot be stopped.
But you can gradually redesign it
part by part,
party by party.


pter 64
Organized things cause Disorder.
Disorganized things cry for Order.
The colorful and flashy get noticed.
The wary and wise wear camouflage.
A mindfuck of epic proportions
only happens when no one notices the set-up.
Most games are won
when using misdirection.

Let other people
wave their flags and storm the riot shields.
You're not playing that game;
Those game rules were written by Authority.
There is no way you can win at that.

Therefore the wise spags learn all the rules,
and then write different games.
They create the Illusion
that best fits their situation,
and doing so, win.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I wear iron maiden shirts to work but were in a secure lab/office and im tucked away in a room.

My previous position there though i was an administrative assistant to two epidemiologists so i cleaned up. And thats the sort of thing i wore to dewey square. Which i will go back to once life stabilizes a little more.

[Triple Zero]

#OCCUPYYOURSUIT

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I like wearing suits because i like how i look in them but only for brief periods of time.
Cuz i like being scrubby too.

[Triple Zero]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/22/pregnant-seattle-protester-miscarries-after-being-kicked-pepper-sprayed/

[Nephew Twiddleton]

That sucks. I was going to make a joke about the rights reaction but felt it was too distasteful.

[East Coast Hustle]

Trip and LMNO covered most of what I was gonna say in regards to Net's idea and Kai's reaction to it, but I gotta ask...

Plus, it makes a good impression on the ladies.

Oops. You were doing okay, up until that line.

And besides, dressing up to go down to the protest isn't "telling the truth". Not even a very good metaphor. Show up in regular clothes. Whatever you were wearing that day. That is the truth. Anything else is putting up a front.

What the hell is this about? First of all, what's wrong with wanting to look good to people whom you want to find you attractive? And do you really think that dressing like a bum when you go to a protest somehow provides more credibility or makes a more powerful and inclusive statement?

That's fucking idiotic.

No, I'm not saying that he is doing anything wrong by dressing up. I'm just saying that his analogy doesn't work because he is deliberately constructing an image to counter the common perception. Which isn't necessarily "telling the truth". And there's nothing wrong with trying to look good to people whom you find attractive, but he ulterior motive undermines the analogy.

I agree with what he and LMNO have been saying for the most part.

"telling the truth" or "presenting an honest narrative" or any of that crap is, well, crap.

Does the OWS movement want to win or not?

[PopeTom]

Just remember if you are going to wear a tie to a protest make sure it's a clip on.