Steve Jobs is dead! A sad day for hipster douchebags everywhere!

[Doktor Howl]

See the main problem I see here is that you assume he could have had a lick of difference in the manufacturing conditions of those countries.

Doing business with them is morally wrong.

There's no gray area here.

[kingyak]

Those last few posts pretty much tell me what I wanted to know.

Which was?

That what is and is not an appropriate reaction to a person's death is ultimately a matter of personal opinion.

Yeah. I mean, following social mores tend to be a complicated matter of perception, empathy, and experience. If you're looking for hard-and-fast black-and-white rules, you aren't going to find any. If you seriously can't figure it out for yourself, your best bet is to find someone that most people generally regard highly, and follow their lead, because they clearly have better social acuity than you do.

I know what I think is and isn't appropriate. I'm just trying to see what other people here believe, because so far those beliefs seem incredibly inconsistent.

And if I'm just going to follow the lead of "someone that most people generally regard highly," then I missed out on some serious grave dancing when Osama was killed, and again a few weeks ago when we blew up an American citizen.

[kingyak]

I'm sort of coming around on the Jobs/Chinese work camp things.

The more I read, the more I want to sick up.

That kind of gets to my point about criticism being valid. Before someone pointed me to the Gawker article, I was completely ambivalent about Jobs/Apple. Now I'm kind of glad I've never bought their products, and probably won't buy their stuff even if they come out with something with features to justify the cost. I realize that all tech companies do something I don't agree with (mostly the Chinese labor thing), but Apple seems to do just about all of them, and their "express yourself" adds a health dose of hypocrisy to the mix as well.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm sort of coming around on the Jobs/Chinese work camp things.

The more I read, the more I want to sick up.

That kind of gets to my point about criticism being valid. Before someone pointed me to the Gawker article, I was completely ambivalent about Jobs/Apple. Now I'm kind of glad I've never bought their products, and probably won't buy their stuff even if they come out with something with features to justify the cost. I realize that all tech companies do something I don't agree with (mostly the Chinese labor thing), but Apple seems to do just about all of them, and their "express yourself" adds a health dose of hypocrisy to the mix as well.

[kingyak]

Fixed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Those last few posts pretty much tell me what I wanted to know.

Which was?

That what is and is not an appropriate reaction to a person's death is ultimately a matter of personal opinion.

Yeah. I mean, following social mores tend to be a complicated matter of perception, empathy, and experience. If you're looking for hard-and-fast black-and-white rules, you aren't going to find any. If you seriously can't figure it out for yourself, your best bet is to find someone that most people generally regard highly, and follow their lead, because they clearly have better social acuity than you do.

I know what I think is and isn't appropriate. I'm just trying to see what other people here believe, because so far those beliefs seem incredibly inconsistent.

And if I'm just going to follow the lead of "someone that most people generally regard highly," then I missed out on some serious grave dancing when Osama was killed, and again a few weeks ago when we blew up an American citizen.

Welcome to the planet. Human beings are inconsistent. If we were consistent, we'd be machines.

[kingyak]

Kind of what I've been getting at the whole thread. The responses to the OP were purely based on gut reaction, but were stated as if he'd done something that was ABSOLUTELY WRONG. If a Koch brother had kicked it and he'd said the same thing, he probably would have gotten applause.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Kind of what I've been getting at the whole thread. The responses to the OP were purely based on gut reaction, but were stated as if he'd done something that was ABSOLUTELY WRONG. If a Koch brother had kicked it and he'd said the same thing, he probably would have gotten applause.

Oh, so your problem is that people didn't e-prime their opinions enough? The OP was callous and uncalled-for. Not subjective enough for you? "Callous" is subjective. "Uncalled-for" is subjective. The statement is inherently subjective, and there is no need to e-prime it for people who lack the ability to make such distinctions on their own.

[kingyak]

If you look back, there was actually quite a bit of explicit e-priming early in the thread. The thing I find interesting about the thread is the number of people who projected their reactions to the OP onto any criticism of Jobs as if they'd established a moral absolute that had to be defended. It was wrong of the OP to dance on Jobs' grave, therefore it was equally wrong of the Gawker article to offer criticisms of Jobs. Of course, to be honest Trip and Dok Howl are the only posters here who've given any indication that they actually read the Gawker article, rather than just instinctively pounding their chests and defending the territory they'd already pissed on.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If you look back, there was actually quite a bit of explicit e-priming early in the thread. The thing I find interesting about the thread is the number of people who projected their reactions to the OP onto any criticism of Jobs as if they'd established a moral absolute that had to be defended. It was wrong of the OP to dance on Jobs' grave, therefore it was equally wrong of the Gawker article to offer criticisms of Jobs. Of course, to be honest Trip and Dok Howl are the only posters here who've given any indication that they actually read the Gawker article, rather than just instinctively pounding their chests and defending the territory they'd already pissed on.

What is the point you're trying to make?

[kingyak]

If you look back, there was actually quite a bit of explicit e-priming early in the thread. The thing I find interesting about the thread is the number of people who projected their reactions to the OP onto any criticism of Jobs as if they'd established a moral absolute that had to be defended. It was wrong of the OP to dance on Jobs' grave, therefore it was equally wrong of the Gawker article to offer criticisms of Jobs. Of course, to be honest Trip and Dok Howl are the only posters here who've given any indication that they actually read the Gawker article, rather than just instinctively pounding their chests and defending the territory they'd already pissed on.

What is the point you're trying to make?

Oh, I failed to make any point I was getting at several pages ago. Now I'm just making observations.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If you look back, there was actually quite a bit of explicit e-priming early in the thread. The thing I find interesting about the thread is the number of people who projected their reactions to the OP onto any criticism of Jobs as if they'd established a moral absolute that had to be defended. It was wrong of the OP to dance on Jobs' grave, therefore it was equally wrong of the Gawker article to offer criticisms of Jobs. Of course, to be honest Trip and Dok Howl are the only posters here who've given any indication that they actually read the Gawker article, rather than just instinctively pounding their chests and defending the territory they'd already pissed on.

What is the point you're trying to make?

Oh, I failed to make any point I was getting at several pages ago. Now I'm just making observations.

OK then.

[Bruno]

APPLE DROOLZ!! COMMODORE ROOLZ!! WOOOOOOO!!!!!!1

[kingyak]

I'm guessing this got posted somewhere on these forums earlier this year, but just in case:
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx

[Bruno]