I am incredibly stupid and help me get my drugs.

[Doktor Howl]

Never tried cactus but if it's further out there than our uk shrooms then I really don't wanna know 

Aside from the puking, it's not bad. 

Well, also aside from killing lizards in the back yard with empty bourbon bottles, eating them raw, and screeching at the neighbors that I am the MIGHTY HUNTER.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am a pretty experiential, experimental person. However, with all the awesome goofy drugs that grow in plants and have been around for millennia co-evolving with us and NOT causing massive brain damage, severe life-destroying addiction, and self-destructive and/or violent dissociative behavior, it absolutely baffles me why anyone would seek out some synthetic wild card rather than one of the relatively safe psychoactives that have been around for long enough to know what they really do to you.

On a related note, did you know that alcoholism wasn't a big problem until we learned to distill that shit on a widespread and inexpensive basis? Suddenly we went from swilling weak homebrews morning, noon and night to swilling hard liquor morning, noon and night. Our brains basically evolved to find alcohol pleasurable, and in mild doses, it is very pleasurable indeed. Suddenly, though, our poor little monkey brains were getting saturated with concentrations tens of times stronger than we were adapted for, and for a time drunkenness was a plague, leading to Prohibition (which never made sense to me until I started watching this documentary... now it makes perfect sense, even though it was an unsuccessful reaction to a real and severe problem).

We seem to be gradually adapting to the availability of strong alcohol, fortunately. Or unfortunately; I don't know.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Never tried cactus but if it's further out there than our uk shrooms then I really don't wanna know 

Aside from the puking, it's not bad. 

Well, also aside from killing lizards in the back yard with empty bourbon bottles, eating them raw, and screeching at the neighbors that I am the MIGHTY HUNTER.

I almost wish I had seen that. Except, poor lizard! Also, gross.

[Cain]

I didn't know that, but it makes sense, and I do generally prefer to have a nice buzz than to be totally pissed.  Being slightly tipsy is much preferable to not being able to stand straight.

[Doktor Howl]

Never tried cactus but if it's further out there than our uk shrooms then I really don't wanna know 

Aside from the puking, it's not bad. 

Well, also aside from killing lizards in the back yard with empty bourbon bottles, eating them raw, and screeching at the neighbors that I am the MIGHTY HUNTER.

I almost wish I had seen that. Except, poor lizard! Also, gross.

What do you mean, "gross"?  Sure, I was a nude 40-something guy waving a whiskey bottle, but I was decently covered up.

With hair.  Hair in places I didn't even used to notice I had.  Imagine a bald sasquatch, or a weaponized ape.  But don't get any weird ideas.  I have an iguana out back that attacks strap ons on sight.  Don't ask how he learned to do that.

[Doktor Howl]

I didn't know that, but it makes sense, and I do generally prefer to have a nice buzz than to be totally pissed.  Being slightly tipsy is much preferable to not being able to stand straight.

Depends.  On an evening out, I like to have 0-2 drinks, depending on the situation.

Twice a year, though, I jam myself into a bottle and swim around until I get the spring in my brain unscrewed a bit.  I have learned to do that when I'm by myself, mind you.  You lose friends otherwise.

[Triple Zero]

Well, no, we do know actually.  These "Research Chemicals" are also known as "bath salts" here in the U.S.  There are plenty of nasty side affects associated with usage which can be found at this link:

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/osa/irc/pubs/DrugFactSheets/bath%20salts.pdf

Hey I'm not in disagreement that these things are dangerous or anything, but once again, you're undermining your own position by arguing something that does not make sense, linking to a PDF that doesn't actually tell you anything. Not even what chemicals they're made of.

I just looked up what RCs are yesterday:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_chemicals
"drugs which are created (or marketed, if they had already existed) to get around existing drug laws, usually by preparing analogs or derivatives of existing drugs by modifying their chemical structure to varying degrees,[1] or less commonly by finding drugs with entirely different chemical structures that produce similar subjective effects to illegal recreational drugs"

Which is already more info than that PDF gives us.

The point is, new ones are being "designed" all the time, so by definition you don't know how dangerous they are.

The list of dangerous side-effects in that PDF must be a selection of dangerous side effects from several of these chemicals, or maybe one specific, but as you don't know whether this PDF is talking about Ethcathinone or not (because they don't mention any specifics at all), there's no way to tell whether they are applicable to what Dalekk ordered or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethcathinone

Still I fully agree that is IS dangerous, except not for the reasons listed in that PDF.

It is dangerous BECAUSE you don't know how safe they are. BECAUSE these things are really new, so little is known about them and that makes em dangerous.

That stupid PDF is stupid. Everybody who is slightly intelligent and did the same wikipedia research as I did is going to come to the same conclusion as I just outlined, and dismiss the entire thing as bullshit. Instead if you argue from an open and honest point of view, people might actually listen.

I think it's so strange--is PD the only crowd where this sort of disinfo creates such an averse reaction, every single time?

[El Sjaako]

I'd love to try peyote/mescaline some time, but I haven't found any yet.

The article about research chemicals may be correct, but it's about a huge variety of substances with different effects, all marketed ass bath salts. However, Dalek has not ordered Bath Salts, he has ordered Ethcathinone. While Ethcathinone has been marketed as bath salts, not all bath salts are Ethcathinone.

Research Chemicals is an incredibly general term, which includes not only the things marketed as Bath Salts (which, as far as I can tell, have speed-like effects), but also completely different stuff, like 2C-B.

I think the term research chemical doesn't say much about the substance, it says more about the scientific understanding of the substance, the public understanding (and knowledge) of the substance, and/or the distribution system of the substance.

[Doktor Howl]

People getting high on bath salts depresses the fuck out of me.

[Triple Zero]

People getting high on bath salts depresses the fuck out of me.

Afaik they're not actual bath salts, it's just that they are shipped/packaged that way, because the crystals kinda look like bath salts or something.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

People getting high on bath salts depresses the fuck out of me.

I had to go look it up.  I thought people were snorting shit from their grandmother's linen closets.  

[AFK]

Well, no, we do know actually.  These "Research Chemicals" are also known as "bath salts" here in the U.S.  There are plenty of nasty side affects associated with usage which can be found at this link:

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/osa/irc/pubs/DrugFactSheets/bath%20salts.pdf

Hey I'm not in disagreement that these things are dangerous or anything, but once again, you're undermining your own position by arguing something that does not make sense, linking to a PDF that doesn't actually tell you anything. Not even what chemicals they're made of.

I just looked up what RCs are yesterday:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_chemicals
"drugs which are created (or marketed, if they had already existed) to get around existing drug laws, usually by preparing analogs or derivatives of existing drugs by modifying their chemical structure to varying degrees,[1] or less commonly by finding drugs with entirely different chemical structures that produce similar subjective effects to illegal recreational drugs"

Which is already more info than that PDF gives us.

The point is, new ones are being "designed" all the time, so by definition you don't know how dangerous they are.

The list of dangerous side-effects in that PDF must be a selection of dangerous side effects from several of these chemicals, or maybe one specific, but as you don't know whether this PDF is talking about Ethcathinone or not (because they don't mention any specifics at all), there's no way to tell whether they are applicable to what Dalekk ordered or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethcathinone

Still I fully agree that is IS dangerous, except not for the reasons listed in that PDF.

It is dangerous BECAUSE you don't know how safe they are. BECAUSE these things are really new, so little is known about them and that makes em dangerous.

That stupid PDF is stupid. Everybody who is slightly intelligent and did the same wikipedia research as I did is going to come to the same conclusion as I just outlined, and dismiss the entire thing as bullshit. Instead if you argue from an open and honest point of view, people might actually listen.

I think it's so strange--is PD the only crowd where this sort of disinfo creates such an averse reaction, every single time?

Yes, I am specifically NOT linking to resources that list chemicals for a particular reason.  I actually have a resource that is very thorough with chemical information that would be very handy to someone who wanted to make these things.  (I'm sure Faust will appreciate me NOT linking to this information)

And you and Dalekk and others are free to not believe me, but I have sat through a few (very thorough and detailed) briefings now and I can say with pretty solid confidence that the drug that Dalekk is talking about falls into the category of "bath salts" which have the health effects listed in the PDF.  And one of the other ways "bath salts" have been marketed in the U.S. and abroad is as "Research Chemicals".  They will typically get around FDA and other regulation by putting something like "not for human consumption" on the package even though it is very obvious they are intended for human consumption.

[AFK]

People getting high on bath salts depresses the fuck out of me.

I had to go look it up.  I thought people were snorting shit from their grandmother's linen closets.  

Nope, it's a marketing gimmick to skirt the FDA.  And it's working.  It's banned in Maine and a few other states but it is still legal to get in many locations across the country.  Hell, in some places you can buy the stuff at truckstops. 

Just imagine your typical long-hauler behind the wheel of a big rig on a busy highway on some of this stuff.  Doesn't that give you a nice cozy feeling in the pit of your stomach? 

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

I'm sorry, but who the hell takes a drug that lists "suicidality" as a known side effect?

What. The. Fuck?

[Freeky]

Never tried cactus but if it's further out there than our uk shrooms then I really don't wanna know 

Aside from the puking, it's not bad. 

Well, also aside from killing lizards in the back yard with empty bourbon bottles, eating them raw, and screeching at the neighbors that I am the MIGHTY HUNTER.

I almost wish I had seen that. Except, poor lizard! Also, gross.

What do you mean, "gross"?  Sure, I was a nude 40-something guy waving a whiskey bottle, but I was decently covered up.

With hair.  Hair in places I didn't even used to notice I had.  Imagine a bald sasquatch, or a weaponized ape.  But don't get any weird ideas.  I have an iguana out back that attacks strap ons on sight.  Don't ask how he learned to do that.

(I taught him. )