Steve Jobs is dead! A sad day for hipster douchebags everywhere!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Where are the oranges? I just see the apples.

Didn't mean to imply that Apple's business policies would be irrelevant in a few weeks. Just that if the author's interest is in making people aware of the negative aspects of Apple's business policies, it makes sense to do it when everyone's talking about Jobs. The hagiographic articles about Jobs are just as much about generating traffic as the Tate article. In fact, IMO most of them are using Jobs' death in an even more cynical manner since they have no agenda beyond cashing in on the current Thing People Are Paying Attention To.

Criticism of a company's business practices is not the same thing as dancing on a bad man's grave. Herp derp.

[kingyak]

Where are the oranges? I just see the apples.

Didn't mean to imply that Apple's business policies would be irrelevant in a few weeks. Just that if the author's interest is in making people aware of the negative aspects of Apple's business policies, it makes sense to do it when everyone's talking about Jobs. The hagiographic articles about Jobs are just as much about generating traffic as the Tate article. In fact, IMO most of them are using Jobs' death in an even more cynical manner since they have no agenda beyond cashing in on the current Thing People Are Paying Attention To.

Criticism of a company's business practices is not the same thing as dancing on a bad man's grave. Herp derp.

That's what I said. 

[kingyak]

I guess technically what I said was "criticizing a public figure's actions is not the same as dancing on a dead man's grave," but I'm still a little confused.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I guess technically what I said was "criticizing a public figure's actions is not the same as dancing on a dead man's grave," but I'm still a little confused.

The thread started with someone saying they were glad Jobs was dead. Connect the dots, topic-wise.

[Epimetheus]

He was worse than Hitler, because he was co-founder and CEO of a company that made products that many people felt were overpriced and placed form over function. We should dance on his grave while playing vuvuzelas.

So, no, he wasn't a bad man? Or, he was a bad man to a certain extent, but we can't be happy because that extent of badness is gone?

Again, nothing to do with me personally. Only intellectually interested in discussing where you're drawing the line. Sarcastic hyperbole is a bothersome, indirect answer, but I will still accept it.

[Payne]

Yeah. If you've got something against someone, whether justified or not, it's a bit crass to say it before the body is even cold.
Unless of course, it's a joke. Jokes are never "not allowed". But right on top of the actual death, they'd better be bloody funny ones, because grief hasn't got much of a  sense of humour.

ETA: Depending on the person, that is. And what they did. I expect I shall be dancing down the street, singing "Ding dong the Witch is dead" the moment I hear of Margaret Thatchers demise. And I bet I won't be the only one. Expect Street Parties, from coast to coast, on a Jubilee scale. Then shortly afterwards, a huge "Let's dig her up and put her head on a pikestaff" Party, Oliver Cromwell style.  I'm think I'm going to start work on a truly fitting obituary, and blackmail that stupid Hippy we've got for an Archbishop of Canterbury, into reading it for her funeral. 

THIS.

Also, Scotland will cease to exist, either through the effects of everyone having such a massive party that the extremely thin veil of "society" gets shredded or because Scotland has defined itself as so anti-Thatcher for so long that they'll simply pop out of reality.

[Scribbly]

Yeah. If you've got something against someone, whether justified or not, it's a bit crass to say it before the body is even cold.
Unless of course, it's a joke. Jokes are never "not allowed". But right on top of the actual death, they'd better be bloody funny ones, because grief hasn't got much of a  sense of humour.

ETA: Depending on the person, that is. And what they did. I expect I shall be dancing down the street, singing "Ding dong the Witch is dead" the moment I hear of Margaret Thatchers demise. And I bet I won't be the only one. Expect Street Parties, from coast to coast, on a Jubilee scale. Then shortly afterwards, a huge "Let's dig her up and put her head on a pikestaff" Party, Oliver Cromwell style.  I'm think I'm going to start work on a truly fitting obituary, and blackmail that stupid Hippy we've got for an Archbishop of Canterbury, into reading it for her funeral. 

THIS.

Also, Scotland will cease to exist, either through the effects of everyone having such a massive party that the extremely thin veil of "society" gets shredded or because Scotland has defined itself as so anti-Thatcher for so long that they'll simply pop out of reality.

I don't think Thatcher will ever die. Just look at her. She's clearly an ancient evil sustained by the misery of working communities.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I will dance on her grave. I don't care how high the fence is, how many armed guards there are, or how long the queue is.

[Faust]

Yeah. If you've got something against someone, whether justified or not, it's a bit crass to say it before the body is even cold.
Unless of course, it's a joke. Jokes are never "not allowed". But right on top of the actual death, they'd better be bloody funny ones, because grief hasn't got much of a  sense of humour.

ETA: Depending on the person, that is. And what they did. I expect I shall be dancing down the street, singing "Ding dong the Witch is dead" the moment I hear of Margaret Thatchers demise. And I bet I won't be the only one. Expect Street Parties, from coast to coast, on a Jubilee scale. Then shortly afterwards, a huge "Let's dig her up and put her head on a pikestaff" Party, Oliver Cromwell style.  I'm think I'm going to start work on a truly fitting obituary, and blackmail that stupid Hippy we've got for an Archbishop of Canterbury, into reading it for her funeral. 

THIS.

Also, Scotland will cease to exist, either through the effects of everyone having such a massive party that the extremely thin veil of "society" gets shredded or because Scotland has defined itself as so anti-Thatcher for so long that they'll simply pop out of reality.

I don't think Thatcher will ever die. Just look at her. She's clearly an ancient evil sustained by the misery of working communities.

She has alzheimer's now. We should do a letter writing campaign to get her to release Bobby Sands.

[Triple Zero]

Here's the predictable fallout from RMSs faux-pas:

http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/time-to-fork-the-fsf/
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3086793

here's a very insightful comment:

Saying "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone" is tripe. Being gone is a euphemism for being dead. The reason we mourn when a loved one dies is precisely because that means they are gone.

and

a transliteration into humane language of what he said:

"My heart goes out to Steve Jobs' family in their time of grief. And my heart also goes to the millions of people who looked up to him as an icon and inspiration. But we need to not get so carried away honoring the dead that we forget the damage that Jobs' work had on the Free Software movement.

His pioneered the software walled garden, which destroys freedom and choice. And he targeted it at people who would not understand what they were sacrificing by giving up their freedoms.

We can only hope that his successors make Apple a more free company, or failing that, are not as effective at spreading it as he was."

Wasn't that better? And it communicated substantively the same thing, but without all the name calling and the seeming glee over the death of another human.

Disclaimer: I typed this on my Macbook Air.

BTW this is not the first time RMS said really offensive things. There's also the "Emacs virgins" incident, where he described women that had never used Emacs (a text-editor, big player in the holy wars of text editors) as "Emacs virgins" and that "we" (neckbearded males, I suppose) were to help them lose this virginity ... uhuh.

Now, I gotta say, the FSF is probably the original, but also most radical open source organisation. They actively fuel the fires of the platform wars (Linux vs Mac/Windows) with campaigns such as "Bad Vistas" and "Windows 7 Sins"

And within this organisation, RMS is the craziest fanatic at the head of it all, like Ghadaffi without the fashion sense.

For example Ubuntu is not part of the FSF. In fact--and I forget for what exact idealistic reason--RMS hates Ubuntu just as well, cause it's not "free" enough (Ubuntu uses a few "non-free" parts and bits because not all hardware vendors open-source their drivers).

Just so you know the type of fundamentalist open-source zealot we're looking at here

IMO his only redeeming quality is the key roles he played in the origins and early days of the Open Source and Free Software movements.

[Lord Cataplanga]

IMO his only redeeming quality is the key roles he played in the origins and early days of the Open Source and Free Software movements.

Also, when he gets batshit crazy, he makes people like Eric Raymond sound more reasonable.

[LMNO]

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

He was worse than Hitler, because he was co-founder and CEO of a company that made products that many people felt were overpriced and placed form over function. We should dance on his grave while playing vuvuzelas.

So, no, he wasn't a bad man? Or, he was a bad man to a certain extent, but we can't be happy because that extent of badness is gone?

Again, nothing to do with me personally. Only intellectually interested in discussing where you're drawing the line. Sarcastic hyperbole is a bothersome, indirect answer, but I will still accept it.

I don't really feel like indulging your assburger tendencies.

[Epimetheus]

He was worse than Hitler, because he was co-founder and CEO of a company that made products that many people felt were overpriced and placed form over function. We should dance on his grave while playing vuvuzelas.

So, no, he wasn't a bad man? Or, he was a bad man to a certain extent, but we can't be happy because that extent of badness is gone?

Again, nothing to do with me personally. Only intellectually interested in discussing where you're drawing the line. Sarcastic hyperbole is a bothersome, indirect answer, but I will still accept it.

I don't really feel like indulging your assburger tendencies.

Thanks. Sometimes we all need to cut back a little. 

[kingyak]

I guess technically what I said was "criticizing a public figure's actions is not the same as dancing on a dead man's grave," but I'm still a little confused.

The thread started with someone saying they were glad Jobs was dead. Connect the dots, topic-wise.

Right, and pretty much everyone agreed that was uncalled for. Then I posted the article by Ryan Tate, which every also seemed to think was uncalled for, initially because it was "cowardly" to publish criticism after the guy had died (in reality Tate has been a critic of Jobs for a while) and then because he was just using the death to get traffic (so is every other site covering Jobs' death).

So again, I ask: Is it inappropriate to criticize/examine a public figure's shortcomings/mistakes/negative actions when they die? If so, then how long is the "mourning period" before people are allowed to examine the parts of a dead person's life when he wasn't shitting rainbows?

Related question: Shouldn't we also extend this "Zippity-Doo-Dah"-only attitude to those who are suffering from a chronic illness? I mean, it seems even meaner to me to criticize a person who's alive and in pain than one who's dead and has no idea you're talking shit about him. In other words, can George W. Bush announce tomorrow that he's got cancer of the pretzel, die a slow, lingering death for the next 30 years, and be remembered as the greatest president in U.S. history thanks to the 3 decades when we could only talk about the positive things he did?