I'll just leave this here....

[East Coast Hustle]

http://www.ic-network.com/glossary/glossarypain.html#Bell

Patient monograph information link on their site is no longer on their site.

ETA: nor is the link on the Pfizer site available. Now I'm pretty sure you're just fucking with me.

It is also manufactured by Paddock Labs:  http://www.paddocklabs.com/  

Do a search for belladonna and see what comes up.  The page seems to be borked but you can see the listing.

Or do you think that I somehow used some magickal HTML ju-jitsu to conjure that up?  

All I can see is that they manufacture a product called "Belladonna & Opium Suppositories". Beyond that, the site is completely borked and provides no information at all about the product.

[AFK]

I provided a fucking link, RWHN.  As I expected, you didn't even look at it.

Fuck this shit.

Well, the thread is kind of long and believe it or not I don't remember every single post made.  I will go looking for your link and find the contact info for the company that makes it.  Will you send them a letter when I do? 

[Triple Zero]

Good job finding the one context in which atropine actually has a synergistic effect with the medicine (atropine apparently acts as an anti-secretion agent which makes it useful in anti-diarrhea medicine).

but how about painkillers? I don't think anyone is trying to abuse anti-diarrhea drugs to get high.

But atropine is a poison, right?  I mean, if it's a poison, it shouldn't be in drugs at all, right? 

Christ, what an asshole.

[East Coast Hustle]

I think it's pretty clear that this thread and any other thread you start is a complete waste of time for everyone else.

Congratulations on successfully trolling PD.com.

I'll bother to post any reply I may get from Pfizer anyway, just for shits and giggles. Otherwise, until you feel like asserting your education credentials in the field and/or dropping the weasely doublespeak and giving a straight answer to a question posed to you, I don't see any reason to continue to treat this as a serious thread.

[AFK]

Are you high?

There is no mention at all of it being added to lomotil to prevent abuse or addiction, which makes sense since people don't tend to get high on anti-diarrheal drugs. It's added to lomotil for its anti-secretion properties.

As with other medicinal opioids, iatrogenic addiction is uncommon although physical dependence secondary to treatment of a functional bowel disorder with diphenoxylate for more than 45–90 days may very well occur; it typically requires the use of high doses to impart a morbid seek orientation for the drug in the user. Because of this, diphenoxylate is manufactured and marketed as a combination drug with atropine (Lomotil, Pfizer) as an abuse deterrent. Lomotil was used during the Apollo program, as was pethidine.[1][2]

[Triple Zero]

Well, the thread is kind of long and believe it or not I don't remember every single post made.

Or read it, or answer it, or have a normal fucking discussion like an adult with a working moral compass without making it into a pissing match that you just HAVE to win because there's people out to "get you", even if it means trying to change the subject, avoiding perfectly normal questions and linking us to sites about diarrhea.

You know the only reason why you have been able to WASTE SO MUCH OF EVERYBODY'S FUCKING TIME with this is that most people actually used to respect and assume your professional knowledge on these matters, right? Well, before this thread, anyway.

Fuck

[AFK]

Oh please 

There's no "if" about it. The reason codeine is mixed with acetaminophen is to "prevent abuse".

No.

Codeine is mixed with acetaminophen for analgesic purposes.

The bastards mix it with fucking ATROPINE to "prevent abuse".  ATROPINE.

Other drugs that are present in Schedule V narcotic preparations like the codeine syrups are ethylmorphine and dihydrocodeine. Paregoric and hydrocodone were transferred to Schedule III from Schedule V even if the preparation contains two or more other active ingredients, and diphenoxylate is usually covered by state prescription laws even though this relative of pethidine is a Schedule V substance when adulterated with atropine to prevent abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeine

The fucking filth.  This is fucking VILE.  The government should not be allowed to have a fucking thing to do with drugs, beyond ensuring that the contents of the drug are as advertised, as with food, etc.

TGRR, this is the link you provided, but the reference you quoted is referring to when atropine is added to diphenoxylate to make Lomotil, which is not codeine.  Is there a different link you were referring to that I'm missing?   

[AFK]

Well, the thread is kind of long and believe it or not I don't remember every single post made.

Or read it, or answer it, or have a normal fucking discussion like an adult with a working moral compass without making it into a pissing match that you just HAVE to win because there's people out to "get you", even if it means trying to change the subject, avoiding perfectly normal questions and linking us to sites about diarrhea.

You know the only reason why you have been able to WASTE SO MUCH OF EVERYBODY'S FUCKING TIME with this is that most people actually used to respect and assume your professional knowledge on these matters, right? Well, before this thread, anyway.

Fuck

I just did thanks!  And you've always been a poster I've really enjoyed sharing company even though we have some strong disagreements in certain areas.  you are an awesome punner and are obviously a very talented chap.  Your comments are disappointing.  I'm chalking it up to you not actually reading all of the posts that are being directed at me by all of the participants, and I'm sure you're a busy guy so I can't fault you for that.  but there is clearly a distinct tact between posters like ECH and NIgel and posters like Rat and Net. 

Yeah, I'm sinking to ECH and Nigel's level because it is what they want.  I'm not going to disappoint them.  But I will gladly have adult conversations with adults who want to act like adults. 

[East Coast Hustle]

Are you high?

There is no mention at all of it being added to lomotil to prevent abuse or addiction, which makes sense since people don't tend to get high on anti-diarrheal drugs. It's added to lomotil for its anti-secretion properties.

As with other medicinal opioids, iatrogenic addiction is uncommon although physical dependence secondary to treatment of a functional bowel disorder with diphenoxylate for more than 45–90 days may very well occur; it typically requires the use of high doses to impart a morbid seek orientation for the drug in the user. Because of this, diphenoxylate is manufactured and marketed as a combination drug with atropine (Lomotil, Pfizer) as an abuse deterrent. Lomotil was used during the Apollo program, as was pethidine.[1][2]

In the PIL for Lomotil (you know, the thing they give patients to inform them about the drug they're taking) there is NO MENTION AT ALL of atropine sulphate being added to prevent abuse or addiction. Jesus fucking christ.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, I'm sinking to ECH and Nigel's level because it is what they want.  I'm not going to disappoint them.  But I will gladly have adult conversations with adults who want to act like adults. 

So would I. Unfortunately, you are hell-bent on excluding yourself from that category. What I want is to be able to engage in a good-faith debate/discussion with someone who values scientific facts and human-friendly morals over doublespeak, evasion, and word-twisting in order to advance some bizzarre "True Believer" agenda.

[AFK]

Are you high?

There is no mention at all of it being added to lomotil to prevent abuse or addiction, which makes sense since people don't tend to get high on anti-diarrheal drugs. It's added to lomotil for its anti-secretion properties.

As with other medicinal opioids, iatrogenic addiction is uncommon although physical dependence secondary to treatment of a functional bowel disorder with diphenoxylate for more than 45–90 days may very well occur; it typically requires the use of high doses to impart a morbid seek orientation for the drug in the user. Because of this, diphenoxylate is manufactured and marketed as a combination drug with atropine (Lomotil, Pfizer) as an abuse deterrent. Lomotil was used during the Apollo program, as was pethidine.[1][2]

In the PIL for Lomotil (you know, the thing they give patients to inform them about the drug they're taking) there is NO MENTION AT ALL of atropine sulphate being added to prevent abuse or addiction. Jesus fucking christ.

You're right, and it should be there.  Did you mention that when you sent them an e-mail?  I would suggest a follow up if you didn't. 

[East Coast Hustle]

I'll wait to see if they bother to reply to my first email, but if they do you can be sure I will mention it.

[BabylonHoruv]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

So the burden of making sure there are no poisons that have been added to medication is upon the layperson being treated?

Pretty much every goddamned prescription medicine you take is going to be poisonous when taken in doses exceeding the doctor's recommendations.  Even when you take them with doctor's recommendations, they can be poisonous.  I mean Jesus people, what do you think side effects are?  They are a physiological reaction to the medicine. 

But yeah, where atropine is poisonous, even in theraputic amounts, pharma should be looking to develop safer alternatives and forumulations.  I've said this already, that there is likely a better way to get the effects sought by adding atropine.  Now, of course that is going to mean taking all of those drugs mixed with atropine off the market while science helps develop a new drug.  You guys realize that's going to take a little bit of time right?

Well, I suppose we could let voters short circuit the scientific method again like they have done with medical marijuana, but that's besides the point.

So now, for those folks who were taking these drugs in theraputic amounts, not being poisoned by atropine, what are you going to tell them?  Have any of you considered that point?  I'm guessing no since none of you have bothered  to bring it up.

I would also like to ask all of you, how many passionate e-mails have you written to your Congrescritters since we started this discussion, demanding that they take these drugs off the market until safer alternatives can be developed?  How many have you written ECH?  HOw many have you written NIgel? 

I mean, if you guys really give a shit about this stuff, you're going to do something about it right? 

Safer alternatives already exist.  Codeine without atropine is safer than codeine with atropine.  They don't have to find a new poison to put in there to make people sick before they stop putting the atropine in.

[BabylonHoruv]

Alright, so I've been thinking, we should form a little task force here.

I mean, clearly, pharmaceutical companies are still adding atropine to different medications.  We should get to the bottom of why this is happening.

So, what I will do is some research and get the contact information for the different companies that make the different medications containing atropine.  Task force members will then contact these companies to get a rationale for why atropine is a component and what kind of research they have on it as far as impacts on patients.  We will then also ask if they've considered or are researching alternatives to atropine.

So, I know we have a good group of passionate people here so I'm just going to assume you are all onboard.  So you each will be getting an assignment later today.  Keep an eye out!

I am up for this.  Give me some pharmaceutical companies names and I'll pester them till I get answers.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, the thread is kind of long and believe it or not I don't remember every single post made.

Or read it, or answer it, or have a normal fucking discussion like an adult with a working moral compass without making it into a pissing match that you just HAVE to win because there's people out to "get you", even if it means trying to change the subject, avoiding perfectly normal questions and linking us to sites about diarrhea.

You know the only reason why you have been able to WASTE SO MUCH OF EVERYBODY'S FUCKING TIME with this is that most people actually used to respect and assume your professional knowledge on these matters, right? Well, before this thread, anyway.

Fuck

I just did thanks!  And you've always been a poster I've really enjoyed sharing company even though we have some strong disagreements in certain areas.  you are an awesome punner and are obviously a very talented chap.  Your comments are disappointing.  I'm chalking it up to you not actually reading all of the posts that are being directed at me by all of the participants, and I'm sure you're a busy guy so I can't fault you for that.  but there is clearly a distinct tact between posters like ECH and NIgel and posters like Rat and Net. 

Yeah, I'm sinking to ECH and Nigel's level because it is what they want.  I'm not going to disappoint them.  But I will gladly have adult conversations with adults who want to act like adults. 

Well, shit.  Put me down for "not like an adult".  I like the company.

TGRR,
Can do this.