I'll just leave this here....

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Actually, FWIW, there are initiatives underway to do the exact opposite.  Create and manufacture pharmaceutical opiates that are far less likely to be addictive while still delivering the same amount of pain relief.  Initiatives that the federal government is behind 100%, which I heard directly from the horse's mouth.  Well, he really isn't a horse, doesn't really look like a horse.  Actually, he kind of looks like Fred Rogers. 

So, they're going to stop adding acetamenophen to opiates and then pat themselves on the back for removing a danger that they intentionally created in the first place?

I'd say that's mighty white of them.

That's bureaucracy for you. 

[AFK]

Yes, If

[BabylonHoruv]

I want to point out that ECH and RWHN are saying two different things.

RWHN is saying they will produce drugs that are less prone to abuse

ECH is suggesting they might produce drugs that are less deadly

Putting Aceteminophen in the opiates was an attempt to produce drugs that are less prone to abuse, after all, a rational person is less likely to abuse a drug that is more likely to kill him.

(yes, I know drug users are not rational, no I am not defending the tactic.  I'm pointing out that I read RWHN's news as likely to lead to more aceteminophen type tricks, not less)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Putting Aceteminophen in the opiates was an attempt to produce drugs that are less prone to abuse, after all, a rational person is less likely to abuse a drug that is more likely to kill him.

I don't give a fuck WHY they did it, if they did in fact do it.  Is there any evidence that this in fact happened?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh please 

There's no "if" about it. The reason codeine is mixed with acetaminophen is to "prevent abuse".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Putting Aceteminophen in the opiates was an attempt to produce drugs that are less prone to abuse, after all, a rational person is less likely to abuse a drug that is more likely to kill him.

I don't give a fuck WHY they did it, if they did in fact do it.  Is there any evidence that this in fact happened?

Codeine is currently, in US and Canada, mixed with acetaminophen.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh please 

There's no "if" about it. The reason codeine is mixed with acetaminophen is to "prevent abuse".

No.

Codeine is mixed with acetaminophen for analgesic purposes.

The bastards mix it with fucking ATROPINE to "prevent abuse".  ATROPINE.

Other drugs that are present in Schedule V narcotic preparations like the codeine syrups are ethylmorphine and dihydrocodeine. Paregoric and hydrocodone were transferred to Schedule III from Schedule V even if the preparation contains two or more other active ingredients, and diphenoxylate is usually covered by state prescription laws even though this relative of pethidine is a Schedule V substance when adulterated with atropine to prevent abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeine

The fucking filth.  This is fucking VILE.  The government should not be allowed to have a fucking thing to do with drugs, beyond ensuring that the contents of the drug are as advertised, as with food, etc.

[AFK]

I want to point out that ECH and RWHN are saying two different things.

RWHN is saying they will produce drugs that are less prone to abuse

ECH is suggesting they might produce drugs that are less deadly

Putting Aceteminophen in the opiates was an attempt to produce drugs that are less prone to abuse, after all, a rational person is less likely to abuse a drug that is more likely to kill him.

(yes, I know drug users are not rational, no I am not defending the tactic.  I'm pointing out that I read RWHN's news as likely to lead to more aceteminophen type tricks, not less)

Eh, acetaminophen is also a medicine that treats pain, which is why it is included in prescription medicines.  I think the theory that the U.S. Government intentionally added it for scheduling purposes is interesting and I'd be interested in reading some information on that.  Recently, the FDA recommended that amounts of acetaminophen be limited in drugs, but it had nothing to do with addiction.  It was about the fact that too much acetaminophen can really fuck up your liver.  

I don't think the current attempts to create addiction resistant medications is strictly limited to acetaminophen levels.  Again, he didn't lay out the specifics of what is happening now, and as in many research ventures of this kind, I would expect multiple methods are being tested.  

[East Coast Hustle]

yeah, too bad the whole "we'll just mix it with atropine!" thing isn't working out as well as they'd hoped. I'm sure they're just THIS close to finding a drug to cut their drugs with that will turn opiate addicts into rational people who will realize that abusing a drug that's cut with fucking atropine isn't really good for them.



If this doesn't make you feel sick to your stomach, you might need to re-examine your morality settings.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

How the FUCK is stepping on codiene with atropine supposed to prevent abuse, if they don't SAY anything out loud and in public?

Oh, yeah.  Word of mouth.

"You heard about Billy?  He fucking died getting whacked on codiene".

Next, the bastards will be putting Warfarin in our coffee grounds so we don't overdo our fucking morning joe, right?

[AFK]

I'm not too familiar with that particular one so I'm not really sure, but I know they had reformulated oxycodone awhile back in a manner that made it more of a slow-release medicine, so you couldn't just pop a couple of pills to get high.  But, then the drug users figured that out and just crushed up the pills and snorted them.  

It's really hard to stay ahead of the drug abusers.  It's probably impossible.  But in all honesty, reformulating drugs to make them less prone to addiction is more about preventing your person who is NOT intending to get hooked on the drugs but does.  Like the soccer mom who fucks up her back, starts taking some oxy's and never fucking stops taking the oxy's.  It really isn't for the purposes of fixing your hardcore junkie.  

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not sure about that, but I know they had reformulated oxycodone awhile back in a manner that made it more of a slow-release medicine, so you couldn't just pop a couple of pills to get high.  But, then the drug users figured that out and just crushed up the pills and snorted them. 

It's really hard to stay ahead of the drug abusers.  It's probably impossible.  But in all honesty, reformulating drugs to make them less prone to addiction is more about preventing your person who is NOT intending to get hooked on the drugs but does.  Like the soccer mom who fucks up her back, starts taking some oxy's and never fucking stops taking the oxy's.  It really isn't for the purposes of fixing your hardcore junkie. 

Then maybe they should fucking stop bothering, instead of making a mildly dangerous drug into a heart-exploding poison.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm not too familiar with that particular one so I'm not really sure, but I know they had reformulated oxycodone awhile back in a manner that made it more of a slow-release medicine, so you couldn't just pop a couple of pills to get high.  But, then the drug users figured that out and just crushed up the pills and snorted them. 

It's really hard to stay ahead of the drug abusers.  It's probably impossible.  But in all honesty, reformulating drugs to make them less prone to addiction is more about preventing your person who is NOT intending to get hooked on the drugs but does.  Like the soccer mom who fucks up her back, starts taking some oxy's and never fucking stops taking the oxy's.  It really isn't for the purposes of fixing your hardcore junkie. 

That's conflating two separate issues. Reformulating an opioid to prevent against the high associated with recreational abuse does absolutely nothing to prevent against physical dependency. So now you have a soccer mom who is STILL phyisically dependent on an opioid AND is putting god-knows-what other dangerous drug into her system that's been added to her pills to prevent her from accidentally enjoying them.

If you can justify that in a way that makes sense, I'll be impressed.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm not sure about that, but I know they had reformulated oxycodone awhile back in a manner that made it more of a slow-release medicine, so you couldn't just pop a couple of pills to get high.  But, then the drug users figured that out and just crushed up the pills and snorted them. 

It's really hard to stay ahead of the drug abusers.  It's probably impossible.  But in all honesty, reformulating drugs to make them less prone to addiction is more about preventing your person who is NOT intending to get hooked on the drugs but does.  Like the soccer mom who fucks up her back, starts taking some oxy's and never fucking stops taking the oxy's.  It really isn't for the purposes of fixing your hardcore junkie. 

Then maybe they should fucking stop bothering, instead of making a mildly dangerous drug into a heart-exploding poison.

Can't do that! That would be practically ENCOURAGING addiction, and we have a puritanical moral duty to punish people who want to use drugs for fun.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not sure about that, but I know they had reformulated oxycodone awhile back in a manner that made it more of a slow-release medicine, so you couldn't just pop a couple of pills to get high.  But, then the drug users figured that out and just crushed up the pills and snorted them. 

It's really hard to stay ahead of the drug abusers.  It's probably impossible.  But in all honesty, reformulating drugs to make them less prone to addiction is more about preventing your person who is NOT intending to get hooked on the drugs but does.  Like the soccer mom who fucks up her back, starts taking some oxy's and never fucking stops taking the oxy's.  It really isn't for the purposes of fixing your hardcore junkie. 

Then maybe they should fucking stop bothering, instead of making a mildly dangerous drug into a heart-exploding poison.

Can't do that! That would be practically ENCOURAGING addiction, and we have a puritanical moral duty to punish people who want to use drugs for fun.

An accidental overdoses remove people that make accidents.  Or their toddlers, for that matter.  Codiene plus atropine means baby stays nice and quite while his/her heart goes bang.

Stop looking at me like that.  We do this shit for the children.