I'll just leave this here....

[AFK]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

[Don Coyote]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

So the burden of making sure there are no poisons that have been added to medication is upon the layperson being treated?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

More comments on the Doctor's concerns about medical Marijuana:

As I said before, if the feds treated pot like any other drug, we'd have a lot of answers to his questions... however, here are some studies that address his concerns:

Driving under the influence:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3033009/  (Upshot, pot smokers drive more slowly and that appears to compensate for effects)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460360 (Upshot, alcohol made people drive faster, pot made them drive slower)
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm (Compared to other medical drugs like Valium and alcohol, pot smoking effects appear to be minimal)

I'm not arguing that pot smoking and driving is a good idea... only that even with the current federal bans on marijuana studies, there are answers to the Doctors question on the subject.

On pregnancy:

http://www.mothering.com/pregnancy-birth/use-of-marijuana-during-pregnancy (Summary of several studies, studies listed at the end of the article... Upshot, no major effects)
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/100/1/79.abstract (Studies of infant mortality rates, Upshot, pot babies mortality rates were lower than cocaine babies, opiate babies and ironically lower than the control babies... probably a fluke)

I'm not arguing that mothers should smoke pot, only that the Doctor's concern has been studied, even in the current political situation.

On physical effects:
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/314/2/780.abstract (An odd study that indicates THC may actually reduce the brain damage associated with alcohol)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html (No evidence of cancer linked to pot smoking)

There are other studies... ones that show marijuana may actually work as an 'exit' drug rather than a gateway drug:
http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/6/1/35

Pot may actually not have the deleterious effect on work that is often assumed:
http://csp.org/chrestomathy/ganja_in.html

Etc etc etc...

Do I believe all of these studies are objective fact? No. They're studies... they're some data that may or may not be accurate. However, if our Doctor friend had bothered to do some research, perhaps some of his concerns could have been mollified.

And, as far as I know, there's no cases of atropine in pot. Pot tends to have its own limiting factor for accidental overdose, you get tired and take a nap.
http://csp.org/chrestomathy/ganja_in.html

[East Coast Hustle]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

What's that got to do with atropine in codeine? Was your wife prescribed codeine? If so, dod the doctor specifically tell her that there was atropine in it? Neither I nor anyone I know who has ever been prescribed codeine has ever been told there was atropine in it. Are you saying that most doctors are just "shitty doctors"? And how does that do anything to justify adulterating a widely prescribed painkiller with a much deadlier drug?

I think if you had it in you to give a straight answer to any of the questions you've been asked ITT you'd have seen this thread take on a whole different tone.

But that was never your intent, was it? Other people are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Myself and (presumably, since I can't speak for her) Nigel are engaging in this "circle jerk" (as you so eloquently put it) because we're pretty sure that you're just a doublespeaking shill who never had any intention of engaging in an honest discussion and lacks the intellectual capacity and moral fiber to do so in the first place. I mean, other than the occasional bad pun this sort of shit is all you ever bring to the table here. Why should you be treated any differently than any other mediocre one-note troll?

[AFK]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

So the burden of making sure there are no poisons that have been added to medication is upon the layperson being treated?

Pretty much every goddamned prescription medicine you take is going to be poisonous when taken in doses exceeding the doctor's recommendations.  Even when you take them with doctor's recommendations, they can be poisonous.  I mean Jesus people, what do you think side effects are?  They are a physiological reaction to the medicine. 

But yeah, where atropine is poisonous, even in theraputic amounts, pharma should be looking to develop safer alternatives and forumulations.  I've said this already, that there is likely a better way to get the effects sought by adding atropine.  Now, of course that is going to mean taking all of those drugs mixed with atropine off the market while science helps develop a new drug.  You guys realize that's going to take a little bit of time right?

Well, I suppose we could let voters short circuit the scientific method again like they have done with medical marijuana, but that's besides the point.

So now, for those folks who were taking these drugs in theraputic amounts, not being poisoned by atropine, what are you going to tell them?  Have any of you considered that point?  I'm guessing no since none of you have bothered  to bring it up.

I would also like to ask all of you, how many passionate e-mails have you written to your Congrescritters since we started this discussion, demanding that they take these drugs off the market until safer alternatives can be developed?  How many have you written ECH?  HOw many have you written NIgel? 

I mean, if you guys really give a shit about this stuff, you're going to do something about it right? 

[AFK]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

What's that got to do with atropine in codeine? Was your wife prescribed codeine? If so, dod the doctor specifically tell her that there was atropine in it? Neither I nor anyone I know who has ever been prescribed codeine has ever been told there was atropine in it. Are you saying that most doctors are just "shitty doctors"? And how does that do anything to justify adulterating a widely prescribed painkiller with a much deadlier drug?

I think if you had it in you to give a straight answer to any of the questions you've been asked ITT you'd have seen this thread take on a whole different tone.

But that was never your intent, was it? Other people are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Myself and (presumably, since I can't speak for her) Nigel are engaging in this "circle jerk" (as you so eloquently put it) because we're pretty sure that you're just a doublespeaking shill who never had any intention of engaging in an honest discussion and lacks the intellectual capacity and moral fiber to do so in the first place. I mean, other than the occasional bad pun this sort of shit is all you ever bring to the table here. Why should you be treated any differently than any other mediocre one-note troll?

No, I have no intent to have a serious conversation on this topic with you or Nigel because you guys aren't capable of having a serious discussion.  I mean, your dopey comment about Mercy is a good example.  You don't have the intellectual temerity to actually take on the arguments so you look for some stupid, superficial escape hatch so you don't have to engage in that heavy lifting.  It's a goddamned hospitale,  the recovery center is a goddamned treatment center like any other treatment center.

When they treat people they don't walk up to their bed and just stand there and pray.  They follow the same procedures any other treatment center would.  I mean Jesus, you must be a little smarter than that, right?  Who's trolling who here. 

[AFK]

I mean Jesus dude, that was the same argument the fucking Tea Baggers were making about that cultural center in NYC near Ground Zero.  That because it had a room for prayer that the whole goddamned building was a gigantic Mosque.  I know you are better than that. 

[rong]

*whistling*

doo-be-doo-be-doo.

*walks away*

hehe -doobie

[AFK]

*whistling*

doo-be-doo-be-doo.

*walks away*

hehe -doobie

[AFK]

Alright, so I've been thinking, we should form a little task force here.

I mean, clearly, pharmaceutical companies are still adding atropine to different medications.  We should get to the bottom of why this is happening.

So, what I will do is some research and get the contact information for the different companies that make the different medications containing atropine.  Task force members will then contact these companies to get a rationale for why atropine is a component and what kind of research they have on it as far as impacts on patients.  We will then also ask if they've considered or are researching alternatives to atropine.

So, I know we have a good group of passionate people here so I'm just going to assume you are all onboard.  So you each will be getting an assignment later today.  Keep an eye out!

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Alright, so I've been thinking, we should form a little task force here.

I mean, clearly, pharmaceutical companies are still adding atropine to different medications.  We should get to the bottom of why this is happening.

So, what I will do is some research and get the contact information for the different companies that make the different medications containing atropine.  Task force members will then contact these companies to get a rationale for why atropine is a component and what kind of research they have on it as far as impacts on patients.  We will then also ask if they've considered or are researching alternatives to atropine.

So, I know we have a good group of passionate people here so I'm just going to assume you are all onboard.  So you each will be getting an assignment later today.  Keep an eye out!

I like that idea!

[East Coast Hustle]

Shitty doctor.  When my wife was put on some medicine for her migraines, her neurologist was very thorough with us on the side effects of that particular medicine including that it was potentially additctive.  Doctors are in a shitty spot where they need to adequately treat pain while also make sure patients are feeling like they are being seen.  I advise anyone getting a medication to err on the side of asking lots of questions. 

What's that got to do with atropine in codeine? Was your wife prescribed codeine? If so, dod the doctor specifically tell her that there was atropine in it? Neither I nor anyone I know who has ever been prescribed codeine has ever been told there was atropine in it. Are you saying that most doctors are just "shitty doctors"? And how does that do anything to justify adulterating a widely prescribed painkiller with a much deadlier drug?

I think if you had it in you to give a straight answer to any of the questions you've been asked ITT you'd have seen this thread take on a whole different tone.

But that was never your intent, was it? Other people are still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Myself and (presumably, since I can't speak for her) Nigel are engaging in this "circle jerk" (as you so eloquently put it) because we're pretty sure that you're just a doublespeaking shill who never had any intention of engaging in an honest discussion and lacks the intellectual capacity and moral fiber to do so in the first place. I mean, other than the occasional bad pun this sort of shit is all you ever bring to the table here. Why should you be treated any differently than any other mediocre one-note troll?

No, I have no intent to have a serious conversation on this topic with you or Nigel because you guys aren't capable of having a serious discussion.  I mean, your dopey comment about Mercy is a good example.  You don't have the intellectual temerity to actually take on the arguments so you look for some stupid, superficial escape hatch so you don't have to engage in that heavy lifting.  It's a goddamned hospitale,  the recovery center is a goddamned treatment center like any other treatment center.

When they treat people they don't walk up to their bed and just stand there and pray.  They follow the same procedures any other treatment center would.  I mean Jesus, you must be a little smarter than that, right?  Who's trolling who here. 

that's pretty funny coming from the guy who has yet to give even one straight answer to any question asked of him in this or any other thread on the subject.

And you can try peddling that bullshit line about Mercy on someone whose mother-in-law doesn't work there. I know better. Yes, their hospital acts as secular as Maine Med. But in every other aspect, especially when it comes to endorsements and the like, they are and always have been driven by a religious-based agenda.

Personally, I refuse to take opiate-based painkillers. I don't like how they make me feel and would rather suck it up and put up with the pain. Not to mention that since I don't have insurance and only recently clawed my way out of the underclass, the only way I could usually afford to pay the bill for the doctor visit and prescription was to sell the painkillers on the black market. Combine that with teh fact that, y'know, I was never once told that atropine was added to codeine by a doctor or nurse and I have never written a congresscritter about it. That said, if you actually put your money where your mouth is for once I'd be happy to join in your little campaign.

But I won't hold my breath.

[AFK]

Alrighty then, let's look at some pharmaceuticals containing Atropine.

Here's one: an injection of Atropine Sulphate.  Here is the PIL that a patient receives when they get a prescription:

http://www.medicines.org.uk/EMC/pdfviewer.aspx?isAttachment=true&documentid=24348

So, who would like to contact Antigen Pharmaceuticals?  Unfortunately it looks like their website is a bit fucked up, and they are located in the UK, but I know we have some super sleuths here that could easily track down a phone number of e-mail address.  Who's up for it?   

[AFK]

Okay ECH, how about you get in on this one.  Pfizer manufactures Lomotil which is a combination of diphenoxylate/atropine, with the atropine being there to deter over-dosage.  You can find their contact info here:  http://www.pfizer.com/contact/  Please report back to us with your findings. 

Here is the PIL for Lomotil:  http://www.medicines.org.uk/EMC/pdfviewer.aspx?isAttachment=true&documentid=23691

TGRR, I'm having some difficulty locating a specific prescription drug containing codeine and atropine.  Maybe it's been taken off the market.  Do you remember the specific brand name of the drug you were prescribed? 

 

[East Coast Hustle]

Maybe we should start with the medicines containing atropine that don't have "atropine" in the name?

Like codeine?

Just a thought.

ETA: looks like you beat me to it.