Slogans for 2011/2012

[Disco Pickle]

This thread.... ugh.

A meritocracy is a lovely myth though.

Its shame that the closest thing resembling it in the real world is a system that works of nepotism.

since Faust had the last post, I thought I should address it first, even if that's just not fair and just.

I agree, nepotism can be a problem when incompetent but well connected people are put in positions in government or private sector jobs for nothing more than having good connections.  That, specifically, is my biggest problem with the symbolically incestuous system that exists in this nation's capital.  Revolving door positions are a serious problem that I am on board with the OWS addressing.  That anger doesn't even begin to cover the people who are "gifted" positions on select committees because they or their parents were "top fund raisers" for the person who eventually got elected.  

I have also had the misfortune to encounter it in the private sector.  I have witnessed at least once that the nepotism corrected itself because the people involved in the day to day dealings with that person were able to point out the incompetence so many times that the company (read: the guy's uncle) was forced to let him go or loose the other more valuable people who worked with him.  

In the public (government) sector, his incompetence would have been protected by a union, (not always, I'm not speaking in absolutes here) or by his connections.

Dynasties like the Bush's, Clinton's, Kennedy's etc should not be possible or accepted except that we love our hero and will vote for their children assuming they are like and or seem to have the qualities we liked in their parents/siblings/whatever.  My views on this are skeletal ITP.  I'll try and flesh them out in another post.

I do believe that political dynasties in a democratic republic are a plague and resemble an aristocracy in all but name.

To Trip:  

My Homework:  Why I'm (Mostly) Wrong ITT

END THE MERITOCRACY!  SLACKERS DESERVE A PIECE OF THE LUXUERY PIE TOO!

Of course, we'd never want to remove the monetary incentive given to over achievers in whatever it is they choose as their obsession.  (I think?  If there's a running sentiment here against this I'd like to know the reasons)  If what they do and know benefits all of us then they should be compensated commensurate on their ability to give us that which we may not have otherwise had or even known we wanted.  This was, at heart, a jab at anyone calling for state mandated salary caps (not saying anyone here has, do not know if anyone has) and disagreeing with that on principal.  If your time and effort is worth it, you should be compensated for it.

DOWN WITH THE AMBITIOUS!  A LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR MEANS WE'RE ALL EQUAL!

This was based on having been through the meat grinder that is the FDE school system and a cheap jab at the FDE, and things like "No Child Left Behind" that seek to do things like pass children "with their class" and for no other reason.  I'm not familiar with how things run in the EU Trip, but this is becoming a (IMO) bad practice here.  Jenne and Dingo can speak much more on this than I and I default to their assessment if mine is off in any way.  It's what I see and have seen, but it's in no way the whole picture because that's not my field, just one about which I'm concerned.

I am very vocal (in appropriate circles) about the pay that people who choose to teach our children are paid.  In my "Utopian Paradise" teachers would be the highest paid people on the planet.  Silly libertarians.


UPWARD MOBILITY IS DOWNWARD MOBILITY FOR EVERYONE ELSE!

This is a reply directly to Twid, who wrote

There is no upward mobility for most.

and I'd ask you to please look at living conditions for "most" over the last century and give me some numbers to back that up.  Higher education (before it became a price bubble) has been the driving force in upward mobility for those willing to pursue it.  Now, for the last 50 years at least, there's never been more opportunity for those willing to spend time, capital, and energy to learn more.  There's a survey or two (which I do not have the link to  atm) pointing out that this country is at a deficit for engineers in nearly every field.  Do a job search for engineer on any job website and you'll see a list of open positions.  WTF aren't we adapting to fill these open positions.. we are more and more importing from countries like India and China.  I lost the thread of this reply.  I'd appreciate a detailed rebuttal and or refutation, and will come back to clarify.  Moving on.

ACHIEVING MORE FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY MEANS LESS FOR EVERYONE ELSE!

This was unfair.  Hell, this entire thing was unfair in the context of painting the board this way (not what I meant, anymore than any one individual here painting the entire..  lets just say "for instance" the "teabaggers" as fat, hover round riding, jebus worshiping, wal-mart shopping, americunts..  I mean..  right?)

My reasoning for this (and why I'm wrong with regard to this post reflecting the sentiments of this board) is that none of you really believe this.  I've never met anyone who does.  It was a troll, and a bad one at that.  We will always attempt to better ourselves, (I hope) and those closest to us, and then if there is anything we can do for anyone that we think won't fuck us in the process, we will do it.  We can only benefit every single one of us when we're able, even if it's outside of our "tribe".

MEDIOCRATY IS THE REAL AMERICAN DREAM!

Unfortunately, without some real evidence to the contrary, I think that mediocrity, while not the specifically stated "GOAL" of the FDE, is certainly a very real result of their policies.  I'd like some input from teachers on this board as the GF has chosen to teach ESE kids and I only get piecemeal, second hand reports of what gen ed teachers have to deal with.  It's her passion and while she gives me some meat on the state of the system as she sees it, she necessarily can't have the full picture.  Are we NOT teaching to the lowest common denominator, at the expense of the middle of the curve?  Is that, in your estimation, a problem?
I can in no way claim to be an expert on this subject (or any other..  lol amirite?) And would love some more inside information.  

GREED IS A WORSE SIN THAN ENVY!   WRATH, LUST AND PRIDE ARE OK..  GLUTTONY AND SLOTH ARE TEH BEST!

This one is more difficult.  It was a continuation of a theme I wrote in one of Dok's thread, the "White American Privilege" thread I think.  Twid, you replied to this specifically, and you're far more intimate with this being a Catholic.  I'll do my best.  

Greed and Gluttony are the same. I don't envy the rich, because I prefer not to be a greedy douche. The government and the WOMP cabal have a monopoly on wrath, lust keeps the human species going, and I think there is more pride going on at the top than the bottom. As far as sloth, I do like sleeping, I must admit.

Phox, you're going to be far more versed on the Latin roots in this.  Chime in when I'm wrong.  Use the cat-o-4 tails please.  Haven't healed from the last cat-o-9 tails session yet.

I do not agree with greed and gluttony being the same.  At least not historically.  Certainly the former can enable the latter, but it's not "of course."  

"envy" was the most recent addition (if you can call AD 590 recent.)  

I lean toward Bertrand Russell's view that envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness.  He also thought it (envy) was necessary for a more just social system.  I actually agree with that that.  I disagree when the thinking expects some centralized state, staffed (or "elected" lol) by the same people who help cause the injustice, is the most competent to administer it (and be accountable to a largely at-sleep populous) and does not become yet another way for private citizens to enrich themselves, given the collusion with military and corporate influence that has clearly existed..  forever.

You are, of course, correct on wrath.

No comment on lust.  Guilty of a good bit of it myself.  With results.

I am not intimate with your background, sir, but I will respectfully challenge your statement that "there is more pride going on at the top than the bottom.

Maybe we're crossing up what we think of as pride.

CAPITALISM HAS NEVER ACHIEVED ANYTHING OF VALUE!

No defense.  Trololol.  

IF YOU'RE WINNING IN LIFE, THAT MEANS OTHER PEOPLE ARE LOSING!

Mostly trolling, but this harkens back to the meritocracy post a bit.  In this system we've created, there will be winners and there will be losers.  I'm not of the opinion that everyone should "win" and that a good dose of struggle is actually beneficial for future generations of any given family.  I'm far from alone in this belief.  The cream will rise to the top, the early bird gets the worm, to the winner goes the spoils.  These are not new concepts any of you have not heard.  Yes, we should care for the least of us, as best we can.  We should not sacrifice either, IMO, the best of us for the least of us.   You're going to probably think I mean to say that I'm on the side of million dollar a year bankers and you'd be wrong.  WRONG!

PAPER MONEY IS THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE THE VALUE FOR EVERYONE!

Twid, messaged you about this.  If it wont cause an aneurysm, get back to me with your thoughts on this.  

THE BELL CURVE ONLY BENEFITS THE 1%!

Oh, this?

This was stupid.

It even SOUNDS stupid.  

lol math.  

But it did have a purpose.

If you want to see the largest growth in income inequality ever charted in history, start in the 50's, then follow it through to the 70's (specifically 71.   Fucking Nixon) and see how fast it grows from there.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Fucking libertarians..  right?

Bed now.  Will drop in tomorrow.

[edited for drunken spell check, and I love you fuckers.  You get my brain going]

damn shame about that cat penis. 

[Disco Pickle]

as an addendum, the latter parts of this thread became awesome and I'm glad I started it.

hindsight, 20/20.

[Payne]

This thread.... ugh.

A meritocracy is a lovely myth though.

Its shame that the closest thing resembling it in the real world is a system that works of nepotism.

In my experience pretty much every ideology is a lovely myth, with varying degrees of "lovely" that are dependent on how exclusive the Ideology is.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Post is a bit to take in at the moment, as I'm getting ready to settle in. But, as far as the paper money/shiny rocks thing goes, if I recall, the point that you had made is to the effect that if you rip a dollar bill in half, both halves are useless, but if you get a dollar's worth of gold and cut it in half, you have 2 pieces of gold worth 50 cents, correct?

Why would that be a desirable reversion? Both fifty cent lumps' value is still arbitrary, and it's just as easy to ask a cashier for 4 quarters.

I honestly don't understand the whole idea of trying to go back to the gold standard. Why not use poker chips? Money's nothing more than some sort of proof that you contributed to society and you deserve a candy bar as a reward or something. So I don't really understand why the gold or silver is even necessary when it can be put to more practical uses. Gold is a useful substance but people like shiny shit, so they assign it a value and lock it up in a use that is anything but useful.

Also, no aneurysm tonight. Villager and I seem to have somewhat resolved our conflict over my participation in the protests, it's the weekend, and I'm fairly certain that some of the major stressors that were weighing down on me have stopped, at least for now.

[Triple Zero]

HEY CUNTLEDICK YOU GET A BIG FAT FUCKING

F

For failing at fucking reading comprehension and actually answering the fucking question.

THE BELL CURVE ONLY BENEFITS THE 1%!

I really like that last one.

Do explain.

Because what you just said puts you squarely at the level of intelligence of the average teabagger.

Homework assignment: Figure out why.

a very clear piece by piece ESSAY on why that "bell curve" remark of you was absolutely the most dumbest thing EVER.

1. ESSAY ON BELL CURVE AND HOW IT APPLIES TO INCOME DISTRIBUTION

So, skipping the heap of bullshit, as the deal was ESSAY ON BELL CURVE first, LISTEN TO DISCO RETARD MAYBE LATER, here is what you wrote about the bell curve:

THE BELL CURVE ONLY BENEFITS THE 1%!

Oh, this?

This was stupid.

It even SOUNDS stupid. 

lol math. 

But it did have a purpose.

If you want to see the largest growth in income inequality ever charted in history, start in the 50's, then follow it through to the 70's (specifically 71.   Fucking Nixon) and see how fast it grows from there.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Fucking libertarians..  right?

The first part where you admit it was stupid contains about the same information as your previous "Point taken. All of them. Sincerely.", but NOTHING about why it was stupid.

The second part, it's not immediately obvious what that has to do with anything (surely the link said nothing remotely connected to bell curves--as would be obvious from the fact that it's about inflation or something), and really it's not my intention to try and puzzle it out cause it's YOUR essay.

I'll give you a hint to the right answer, maybe you'll get it some day. Your essay might have started with the line:

"Trick question. Income distribution does not follow a bell curve."




I ... I don't know. I am disappoint. Damn good show.

I think this is the first time I exactly understand what the Discordians mean by "cabbage".

You're a cabbage, not a pickle. You're a robot, incapable of thought and reasoning by itself, but very good at parroting and pretending to be a biped. You had me fooled a couple of times, but I give up. Goodbye.

[Disco Pickle]

Oh, you really are just a dick.

Good show sir, good show.  You had me fooled as well.

I'm truly, deeply sorry I failed to impress you.   

I'll get back you you Twid.  Weekend and all.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, you really are just a dick.

Good show sir, good show.  You had me fooled as well.

I'm truly, deeply sorry I failed to impress you.   

I'll get back you you Twid.  Weekend and all.

You didn't even bother doing the homework he asked you to do. You didn't explain your statement, you just spouted something nonsensically stupid and then, when called on it, dismissed it with "lol" and an unrelated link.

How do you expect to ever be taken for anything but an idiot, if you pull shit like that?

[Disco Pickle]

He's an asshole.  I thought maybe it was good natured ribbing, "friendly but tough advice," something along those lines.

I was wrong. 

I really am sorry I wasn't able to impress him.

Truly.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

He's an asshole.  I thought maybe it was good natured ribbing, "friendly but tough advice," something along those lines.

I was wrong. 

I really am sorry I wasn't able to impress him.

Truly.

Actually, having met him in person, he's one of the coolest dudes I've ever met.

[Disco Pickle]

I have no doubt.  I regularly enjoy his (your, I'll stop talking around you Trip) very detailed posts on many subjects and you're clearly the sort of person I'd want as a friend to learn from and talk with.  We might not always agree, but that would be ok and I'd hope we wouldn't call that a reason to not be friendly.  (I wouldn't anyway)

What you're doing ITT runs counter to all of that and by being a dick, I'm inclined to ignore you and your ideas because you're using them like a club.

I know topics like this get people's blood hot.  I knew posting it would get some heated exchanges.  You've devolved into ad hominem and are really just being a mean little prick, so no, I will not dance for you and give you the homework you demanded.  I know what I wrote and I knew that tying income inequality to a statistical bell curve  (logarithmic is the most appropriate scale, but then you knew that) was baiting. 

You know what, I'm at fault here.  I wrote it knowing it would get a response. 

I should have stayed with my first instinct and just lurked moar. 

I reacted to what I perceived were attacks on my character and personal experience and world view.  They manifested themselves AS attacks on my character and I caused that.

I have some thinking to do.  I didn't ever want to make enemies here.

Going to take a break, come back when I can behave myself.

Take it easy PD.  You guys are alright.  You're mean sometimes, but you're alright.

[Phox]

He's an asshole.  I thought maybe it was good natured ribbing, "friendly but tough advice," something along those lines.

I was wrong. 

I really am sorry I wasn't able to impress him.

Truly.

Umm. No. I'm sorry, Pickles, but you're biped card is officially revoked. I was kind of hoping that you would have managed to avoid that by actually, ya know, answering the concerns and comments of the people here, but your lack of ability to comprehend WHY Trip is acting the way he is has gone and done it. I am unsure whether I will  prod you mercilessly (since Trix went and got all interesting, and shit I need a replacement chewtoy) or I will simply ignore anything you have to say. Time will tell, I suppose.

P.S. The gold standard is more worthless than paper money. Reason: if you are going to assign an arbitrary value to an item, might as well be a relatively easily produced one rather than a stupid shiny rock.

^ Last reasonable post from Phox ITT.

[Triple Zero]

The Disco Cabbage will not dance???

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The Disco Cabbage will not dance???

And I'm too Ron Paul for your Party, too Ron Paul for your Party
No way I'm disco dancing!

Sorry. Had to. I now feel very not metal.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

He's an asshole.  I thought maybe it was good natured ribbing, "friendly but tough advice," something along those lines.

I was wrong. 

I really am sorry I wasn't able to impress him.

Truly.

No, he was ACTUALLY ASKING YOU TO EXAMINE YOUR STATEMENT and write a critical analysis of it.

You declined to do so.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And now you're basically tantruming because you've been caught out making yourself look foolish and your pride is wounded.