Author Topic: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language  (Read 1815 times)

Telarus

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8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« on: December 05, 2011, 09:24:47 pm »
http://wakeup-world.com/2011/11/28/the-discovery-of-dolphin-language/


Haven't finished reading this quite yet... but I am fucking IMPRESSED with the experimental setup.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 09:28:15 pm by Telarus »
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 10:09:14 pm »
Woah!  This does sound pretty awesome.

A bit presumptuous to be saying they understand the concept of human language (LOL THAT SOUNDED RETARDED), but still pretty nifty.
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As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 10:10:41 pm »
Which one is "tuna net"?
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 10:19:11 pm »
I got kinda skeptical when they said "the pulse of reflected sound contains a semi-holographic representation of the object"

Because wtf does "semi holographic" mean??

It's not holographic because it bounces off the surface of the object. So is it just an acoustic image, sonar, echo image or what have you, then "semi holographic" is just a meaningless smartypants word, and they are associated with the Global Heart new age spiritual movement. So yeah.

Maybe it's really incredible or something, could be I dunno.

BTW there was a discussion on Hackernews about this too: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3314056

And some guy linked to the original research article, might be of interest to you: http://www.speakdolphin.com/ResearchItems.cfm?ID=20

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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 10:20:12 pm »
Which one is "tuna net"?

 :horrormirth:

Dolphins are assholes, so it stands to reason that they're intelligent enough to have developed language.

I am pretty sure that being a huge fucking dick is a sign of higher intelligence.
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 11:29:03 pm »
Which one is "tuna net"?

 :horrormirth:

Dolphins are assholes, so it stands to reason that they're intelligent enough to have developed language.

I am pretty sure that being a huge fucking dick is a sign of higher intelligence.

The more complex the mind, the greater the need for more stimulating forms of "entertainment"
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 07:34:28 pm »
This article does not show language.

What it does show is that dolphins can use their sonar to differentiate between similar objects of similar size, and that a sonar blip emitted from one individual that bounces off an object can be interpreted by another individual that receives the bounce. Nowhere is there any indication that dolphins can send these messages to sonar between each other, only that the return sound bounced off an object can be interpreted by any dolphin. These images aren't communicated, because, except for the intervention of the researchers, every individual would be receiving the return sonogram at the same time, even the emitter.

For it to be language, dolphins would have to have the ability to emit sounds which replicate the return signal and send them directly to other individuals. There is no evidence of this.
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2011, 07:51:59 pm »
This article does not show language.

What it does show is that dolphins can use their sonar to differentiate between similar objects of similar size, and that a sonar blip emitted from one individual that bounces off an object can be interpreted by another individual that receives the bounce. Nowhere is there any indication that dolphins can send these messages to sonar between each other, only that the return sound bounced off an object can be interpreted by any dolphin. These images aren't communicated, because, except for the intervention of the researchers, every individual would be receiving the return sonogram at the same time, even the emitter.

For it to be language, dolphins would have to have the ability to emit sounds which replicate the return signal and send them directly to other individuals. There is no evidence of this.

That's much clearer that what you left on my FB, thanks. I wonder if they've begun to design a setup to test that yet. I admit, I want to dig into the research material and not go off of "science journalism" (thanks Trip for that link). And I think you're right, Kai.. we have to catch them passing this type of information-packets among themselves in some fashion before we can call it language as such.

Trip, as to the 'semi-holographic' thing, I think the author chose that because even reflected "echos" of the sonogram contained traces of the 'picture', much like slices of holographic film contain the master image.

I think the exciting thing is that they have a very scientifically plausible theory as to how dolphins receive and interpret sonograms into "thought-images" that takes into account specifics of dolphin anatomy.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:59:00 pm by Telarus »
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2011, 08:08:10 pm »
This article does not show language.

What it does show is that dolphins can use their sonar to differentiate between similar objects of similar size, and that a sonar blip emitted from one individual that bounces off an object can be interpreted by another individual that receives the bounce. Nowhere is there any indication that dolphins can send these messages to sonar between each other, only that the return sound bounced off an object can be interpreted by any dolphin. These images aren't communicated, because, except for the intervention of the researchers, every individual would be receiving the return sonogram at the same time, even the emitter.

For it to be language, dolphins would have to have the ability to emit sounds which replicate the return signal and send them directly to other individuals. There is no evidence of this.
Thanks Kai.  I misread the article and thought that's what they were doing.
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 09:17:29 pm »
If the dolphins can't transmit those sounds without the object present, then it's pretty much like bats, right? Except that (I suppose) bats navigate only using their own sounds+echos, while dolphins can also "read" the shape of things by listening to other dolphins scanning clicks.
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Re: 8 sonic-pictoral 'nouns' discovered in Dolphin Language
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 08:32:55 pm »
If the dolphins can't transmit those sounds without the object present, then it's pretty much like bats, right? Except that (I suppose) bats navigate only using their own sounds+echos, while dolphins can also "read" the shape of things by listening to other dolphins scanning clicks.

I wonder if bats can do the same thing. But yeah, sonar, echolocation, they're just different words for the same thing in different mediums. Water versus air. There's some pretty interesting research with bats and their ability to differentiate between different types of prey (and of moths that can detect bat calls and do a nose dive whenever they hear something similar).
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