Author Topic: No more sermons, no more rants.  (Read 12706 times)

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2011, 01:53:23 am »
TFYS is intended for "philosophical" type discussions and ideas that are not rants. Afaik, Intermittens grew there because the first issues were partially a collection of such discussions and an exposition of our ideas. Also because it was somewhat inspired by the Black Iron Prison pamphlet, which is mostly TFYS material. In hindsight, how Intermittens ended up, it might have been better in MM.

Literate Chaotic has always been somewhat vague to me. It's got books, linguistic discussions, but also people's own story writings. Right?

And Principia Discussion is our lightning rod. It has nothing to do with O:MF, it sits there nicely at the top of our board index pretending to be a place where n00bs and Maybe Logic farts and such types can discuss the Principia, RAW and all that, so they don't do it somewhere else. And occasionally someone posts some actual interesting tidbit of Discordiania and that is also nice (such as Cram's annotated PD, the 1st Ed. PD, those kinds of things). Plus, if we try to move the pool, it'll spill and we'll never get the slimy bits out.

Merging the Meta boards sounds like a plan BTW, I'm always looking in both of them when I try to find something there.
TYFS, I think, needs a description which says that, then. Doesn't seem clear to me.

Do you think that Literate Chaotic, Bring and Brag and Multimedia Menace could sort of be put together? Seems like there are things in each of them which belongs in the others. Podcast stuff in Bring and Brag, discussion of the Black Mirror TV series in Literate Chaotic.

I agree about Principia Discussion. O:MF could probably go inside it, but there's no reason to do so.

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2011, 02:26:09 am »
I hesitate to put my two cents in but I've been around for a while and as one who really doesn't post anymore I can say this. 

It's a combination of what has already been mentioned.  The extreme personal information in the Open Bar, the criticism and the lack thereof to take it or give it with any grace or maturity (I include myself in this), the shit flinging, the feeding frenzies that extend from new people to those who have been members for a few years or more, the general lack of respect for each other.

I lurk.  I'm a "VIEWER". I stopped truly participating a long time ago.  I've watched others leave or their participation dribble down to nothing.  Most after yet another confrontation where it can't be kept to the topic but it becomes personal and it carries thru to other threads and you get to the point that you're just "fuck it, this is supposed to be fun". If it isn't fun, then why bother when the same thing is going to happen again?

And you rethink every single post to see where it can get torn to shreds because it becomes the norm, not the every once in a while. 

I don't know, just my thoughts..... 

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2011, 02:26:57 am »
No no no no no and no. I strongly disagree :)

TFYS is intended for "philosophical" type discussions and ideas that are not rants. Afaik, Intermittens grew there because the first issues were partially a collection of such discussions and an exposition of our ideas. Also because it was somewhat inspired by the Black Iron Prison pamphlet, which is mostly TFYS material. In hindsight, how Intermittens ended up, it might have been better in MM.

Literate Chaotic has always been somewhat vague to me. It's got books, linguistic discussions, but also people's own story writings. Right?

And Principia Discussion is our lightning rod. It has nothing to do with O:MF, it sits there nicely at the top of our board index pretending to be a place where n00bs and Maybe Logic farts and such types can discuss the Principia, RAW and all that, so they don't do it somewhere else. And occasionally someone posts some actual interesting tidbit of Discordiania and that is also nice (such as Cram's annotated PD, the 1st Ed. PD, those kinds of things). Plus, if we try to move the pool, it'll spill and we'll never get the slimy bits out.

Merging the Meta boards sounds like a plan BTW, I'm always looking in both of them when I try to find something there.
What about merging Bring and Brag with Literate Chaotic and/or Multimedia Menace? The three of them seem, to me at least, to serve largely the same function, though perhaps merely merging them as child boards? They always struck me as vaguely defined and heavily overlapping.

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2011, 02:34:24 am »
And you rethink every single post to see where it can get torn to shreds because it becomes the norm, not the every once in a while. 
This isn't a bad thing, except where you have to consider whether you are going to be personally attacked over it.
Sometimes this is a chance to consider why you think you are being attacked, other times it's actually a sign that people are jumping on you unreasonably.

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2011, 02:58:33 am »
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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2011, 04:52:18 am »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2011, 06:06:19 am »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

I don't really know how to say this without it sounding sort of insistent, but:
Wouldn't this be the time to compile all of these core ideals and observations into another Principa-level document? A sort of "progress report"? Maybe?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 06:10:07 am by Nyx »

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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2011, 07:12:54 am »
The sharing of what is seen as "the banal details of their lives" is a pretty normal part of the friendship they have with a lot of the other members.

But FFS, they can start a blog thread, right?  I don't want to hear about peoples' rotting bits unless it's funny.
Yeah, a blog thread is a reasonables solution. Maybe even a blog thread board.

Hang on, thought about it.

The blog threads aren't going to get read, so the shit is going to ooze back out onto the board at large.

 :x

Incidentally, I think we have TOO MANY subforums.  A few could stand to get merged.

People WILL write about their personal lives. People WILL share fluff. And that's fine. The only issue I have with Open Bar is that people aren't even trying to be funny or interesting anymore, and I am not excluding myself from this "people".

Killing Open Bar for a while at least raises the bar; want to start a thread about your stuff? Automatically, the act of starting a thread creates incentive to get people to respond by making it interesting, funny, descriptive, have a point and a punchline. It's ALREADY working; I haven't seen new posts across so many topics in AGES.

I like the shift from "Hey guys my cooch is itchy" to "AN ITCHY COOCH: MY EPIC TALE OF DISCOMFORT AND HOW I FOUND A POWDER TO RESOLVE IT"

because the first is a boring telly one-liner, and the second is equally TMI but is an attempt to tell a story that might entertain, educate or amuse.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2011, 07:15:44 am »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

I don't really know how to say this without it sounding sort of insistent, but:
Wouldn't this be the time to compile all of these core ideals and observations into another Principa-level document? A sort of "progress report"? Maybe?


Hey.

Maybe it's time for this.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2011, 07:28:12 am »
The sharing of what is seen as "the banal details of their lives" is a pretty normal part of the friendship they have with a lot of the other members.

But FFS, they can start a blog thread, right?  I don't want to hear about peoples' rotting bits unless it's funny.
Yeah, a blog thread is a reasonables solution. Maybe even a blog thread board.

Hang on, thought about it.

The blog threads aren't going to get read, so the shit is going to ooze back out onto the board at large.

 :x

Incidentally, I think we have TOO MANY subforums.  A few could stand to get merged.

People WILL write about their personal lives. People WILL share fluff. And that's fine. The only issue I have with Open Bar is that people aren't even trying to be funny or interesting anymore, and I am not excluding myself from this "people".

Killing Open Bar for a while at least raises the bar; want to start a thread about your stuff? Automatically, the act of starting a thread creates incentive to get people to respond by making it interesting, funny, descriptive, have a point and a punchline. It's ALREADY working; I haven't seen new posts across so many topics in AGES.

I like the shift from "Hey guys my cooch is itchy" to "AN ITCHY COOCH: MY EPIC TALE OF DISCOMFORT AND HOW I FOUND A POWDER TO RESOLVE IT"

because the first is a boring telly one-liner, and the second is equally TMI but is an attempt to tell a story that might entertain, educate or amuse.

I still wouldn't read it, but you've made the point.  :lol:
If someone does the “Fine, you’re right, I’m clearly a terrible person, I’m Satan, I’m the worst person alive, I should just die” thing in response to criticism of their harmful behavior, they are trying to manipulate people and flip the situation around so that they look like a victim.

As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2011, 01:00:12 pm »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

I don't really know how to say this without it sounding sort of insistent, but:
Wouldn't this be the time to compile all of these core ideals and observations into another Principa-level document? A sort of "progress report"? Maybe?


Hey.

Maybe it's time for this.

I like this idea.

It also makes me a little nervous that I won't have anything of value to contribute.

Which of course means that I definitely should.
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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2011, 01:22:25 pm »
I hesitate to put my two cents in but I've been around for a while and as one who really doesn't post anymore I can say this. 

It's a combination of what has already been mentioned.  The extreme personal information in the Open Bar, the criticism and the lack thereof to take it or give it with any grace or maturity (I include myself in this), the shit flinging, the feeding frenzies that extend from new people to those who have been members for a few years or more, the general lack of respect for each other.

I lurk.  I'm a "VIEWER". I stopped truly participating a long time ago.  I've watched others leave or their participation dribble down to nothing.  Most after yet another confrontation where it can't be kept to the topic but it becomes personal and it carries thru to other threads and you get to the point that you're just "fuck it, this is supposed to be fun". If it isn't fun, then why bother when the same thing is going to happen again?

And you rethink every single post to see where it can get torn to shreds because it becomes the norm, not the every once in a while. 

I don't know, just my thoughts..... 

I concur. 
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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2011, 01:29:39 pm »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

I don't really know how to say this without it sounding sort of insistent, but:
Wouldn't this be the time to compile all of these core ideals and observations into another Principa-level document? A sort of "progress report"? Maybe?


I like this idea.  (And, hi, Nyx, I don't think we've met.)

It has also sparked another idea...

What do y'all think of a project tentatively called, "Who Are We?"  This is off the top of my head, suggestions are welcome.

I'll collect pieces we write about each other.  No hit pieces, but not just gushing, tell me how you see somebody.  Several somebodies.  Make them funny, make them interesting, make them real, make them up.  Email them to me (one spag per email), I'll try my hand at editing them together, pick the best few I get for each poster.

Also to include, send me your best "Who are we?" bits.  (I love those, but will only use the ones you send, since that'd be permission... and search is borked, and they happen in random places.

Essays about the place in general.  What is peedee.com?  Tell me about shit here.  Tell me about douchenozzle n00bs.  Tell me about how we make you think, how we make you feel.

Default will be no author names, unless requested.  Don't ask me "who wrote that?"  I ain't saying, but if somebody recognizes your writing style, it ain't my fault.

If someone does not want pieces about them included, I will respect that, of course, just drop me an email.  If y'all prefer, I can run the finished "this is what I have on you" by people before it goes up for an, "oh, god, no."

Pics.  Artwork.  WOMPs.

What do you think?  Format will probably be a webpage, unless somebody wants to hold my hand through making something paper out of it.
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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2011, 01:39:09 pm »
It's late, and I've had wine, but I can't believe that I'm the only one who's noticed this: in the five or six years of posting here, and despite the petty interfaith shit flinging we do on a regular basis, there is this.

We have reached consensus.

Our little tribe has done a LOT of talking, and we've changed our minds quite a bit. TOWARDS each other.

Our core ideals and outlook are, at their heart, aligned. We've stripped away the outer biases, and now we only fight over our inner ones.

Who's going to argue over TGRRs prophecy? Cain's insights? Cram's IRL plots? Kai's science?  ECH's cooking?

We transformed from a bunch of strangers figuring things out into a group of friends, relating our daily struggles.

I don't really know how to say this without it sounding sort of insistent, but:
Wouldn't this be the time to compile all of these core ideals and observations into another Principa-level document? A sort of "progress report"? Maybe?


I like this idea.  (And, hi, Nyx, I don't think we've met.)

It has also sparked another idea...

What do y'all think of a project tentatively called, "Who Are We?"  This is off the top of my head, suggestions are welcome.

I'll collect pieces we write about each other.  No hit pieces, but not just gushing, tell me how you see somebody.  Several somebodies.  Make them funny, make them interesting, make them real, make them up.  Email them to me (one spag per email), I'll try my hand at editing them together, pick the best few I get for each poster.

Also to include, send me your best "Who are we?" bits.  (I love those, but will only use the ones you send, since that'd be permission... and search is borked, and they happen in random places.

Essays about the place in general.  What is peedee.com?  Tell me about shit here.  Tell me about douchenozzle n00bs.  Tell me about how we make you think, how we make you feel.

Default will be no author names, unless requested.  Don't ask me "who wrote that?"  I ain't saying, but if somebody recognizes your writing style, it ain't my fault.

If someone does not want pieces about them included, I will respect that, of course, just drop me an email.  If y'all prefer, I can run the finished "this is what I have on you" by people before it goes up for an, "oh, god, no."

Pics.  Artwork.  WOMPs.

What do you think?  Format will probably be a webpage, unless somebody wants to hold my hand through making something paper out of it.

Hmm. I'll see what I have floating around in my head.
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Re: No more sermons, no more rants.
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2011, 01:54:43 pm »
TYFS, I think, needs a description which says that, then. Doesn't seem clear to me.

Completely agree. We used to have reasonably descriptive subforum descriptions, but then we started changing some, and then we changed them some more. And right now most of them are complete nonsense that only give a hint of what the forum is about if you already know what's being hinted at.

- For instance there is currently nothing that identifies Apple Talk as a general discussion subforum.
- I have no idea what the description of Aneristic Illusions even means, let alone telling me it is a politics subforum.
- Literate Chaotic's description is so non-descriptive, that nobody remembers what it was even intended for.
- The description of Think For Yourself Schmuck! should mention "discussion of new ideas" first and the collaborative projects that happened to birth from them only as an afterthought. It's all about novelty and developing ideas, the BIP, Origin of the Lie, Shrapnel and more. It should probably start with Cram's (?) quote "Did you know that most people only have three original thoughts per week?" and then "Discuss new ideas to see if they catch fire." I don't even think it needs to mention Intermittens (since that technically belongs in another subforum), and maybe not even the BIP either (especially not abbreviated like that--remember, the descriptions are there foremost for n00bs) because "discuss the BIP"? What's there to talk about except for how awesome it is, or how it is too dark/negative? It is not really an active project anymore (well except for the Spanish translation right now) and if people have something to say about it, they will bring it up.
- Operation: Mindfuck needs improvement too. Now it basically says "discuss here if you want to DO something about it", while not strictly wrong, it is way too general. It should at least mention pranks and jakes. Pranks, jakes, trolls, mindfucks, shenanigans and misinformation campaigns. ("trolls" might draw unwanted attention from (trolled) people that just got past the postcount-barrier, though)
- The other descriptions at least describe what sort of content is supposed to go there. Principia Discussion's could elaborate a bit more, maybe.


Quote
Do you think that Literate Chaotic, Bring and Brag and Multimedia Menace could sort of be put together? Seems like there are things in each of them which belongs in the others. Podcast stuff in Bring and Brag, discussion of the Black Mirror TV series in Literate Chaotic.

yeah maybe. this is how I thought they were differentiated:

Literate Chaotic: books, reading, linguistics and writing projects
Bring & Brag: any sort of creative product you want to show off that is not directly Discordia-related (Literate Chaotic's writing projects should go here)
Multimedia Menace: used to be "Propaganda Depository" for flyers posters and pamphlets. Then got expanded to include other Discordian media such as video and podcasts and was renamed. I think it should be renamed back to "Propaganda Repository/Depository" (because it explains the purpose better) with the description specifying this includes "Flyers, posters, pamphlets, podcasts, videos, etc."

Quote
I agree about Principia Discussion. O:MF could probably go inside it, but there's no reason to do so.

No. I generally prefer to avoid child subforums, especially for important ones like O:MF. The problem is that people often forget them, when posting new threads.

Speaking of, RPG Ghetto is under Multimedia Menace. I like how this board became more than just RPG talk, but also has discussions about gaming theory, game development and DIY/indie gaming. Under Multimedia Menace is maybe a weird place (especially after we rename it to "Propaganda Deprository"), but I don't see any other place where it could go either :)
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