Evil.

[P3nT4gR4m]

This is one of those things that really doesn't get a lot of press as related to this shitty economy.  We hear a lot about the people who lost jobs, can't find jobs, etc., and rightfully so because that is awful.

But, there is this other thing where people are trapped in shitty jobs out of fear of not being able to find a different job.  So they are stuck under fucked up bosses like this one.  My wife has been in and out of this situation where she works.  It sucks but what can you do?  People still have to eat, have shelter, etc.  

Exactly.

If she didn't have to contribute to the mortgage which costs more than the house, if she had savings, if she didn't have credit cards to pay off, if she could just walk into another job, she'd have just quit.

But we have to live in the real world. Her boss sees an opportunity to squeeze harder, and thinks that doing so will reward her more than having a team that actually want to work there.

I just hope she's wrong. Maybe she would be if the world was filled with more P3nts.

It's a matter of being prepared to cross lines when those lines only serve your opponent to your detriment. Problem is everyone is conditioned to not cross these lines and the fact that most wont is probably the only reason society doesn't fall apart completely. Most are of the opinion that laws should not be broken I'm of the same opinion but if the law doesn't protect me against fuckheads and evildoers then as far as I'm concerned it was broken before I went near it.

[Scribbly]

I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).

Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.

(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)

[AFK]

I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).

Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.

(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)

I don't think it is.  It sounds essentially like vacation time which is something, unfortunately, companies can take away at will here in the U.S.  It would be different if they were a contract employee and it was stated in their contract they get x number of days off.  But I think that this is probably very legal.

Unethical and immoral for sure, but it probably passes the legal test. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It also guarantees that none of their intelligent employees will have a glimmer of loyalty.

In banking & insurance, that's mission accomplished.

[Scribbly]

I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).

Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.

(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)

I don't think it is.  It sounds essentially like vacation time which is something, unfortunately, companies can take away at will here in the U.S.  It would be different if they were a contract employee and it was stated in their contract they get x number of days off.  But I think that this is probably very legal.

Unethical and immoral for sure, but it probably passes the legal test. 

She definitely got her vacation time revoked; she told me about that before the sick thing, I thought they would be two different things. Possibly my bad.

Essential point is though; the recession gives employers more power over their employees. We now get to see people be unfeeling, immoral jerks just because they can.  

It also guarantees that none of their intelligent employees will have a glimmer of loyalty.

In banking & insurance, that's mission accomplished.

Ouch. Yeah.

I've often wondered how such a sweet lady can be involved in insurance; I suppose someone, somewhere noticed this and decided to squash it out of her.

[Sita]

I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).

Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.

(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)

Some companies give sick days and vacation days, some just give PTO which is a bunch of time off that you can use however you wish. Usually adding up to at least two weeks of time (more if you've been there longer)

Plenty of places will tell you to use up PTO time before the end of the year because they won't roll it over, and sadly some think it's perfectly fine to take it away if there's only a week or two left so no one decides to call in during the end year rush.

[Luna]

PTO is also wonderful for companies because, at least in SOME states, if you terminate for ANY reason, you must be paid your vacation time due.  (I have had to make out checks to "The Estate Of..." because they had time due.)  A PTO bank is specifically not vacation.

They probably can't force her to work, but hey may be able to not pay her if she's out... unless she's sick enough to get a doctor to put her out on medical leave.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.

That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.

That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.

Board of Labor, not OSHA. 

If she was promised PTO as part of her benefits package, and she had accrued PTO available, they cannot take that away, as it is considered compensation.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.

*unless I'm reading this all wrong

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.

*unless I'm reading this all wrong

Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.

*unless I'm reading this all wrong

Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.

It's a gamble, right enough. Reduce the odds by going it alone, maybe? Firing one person for taking a couple of days off (especially when they're already showing symptoms) is probably more of a can of worms than the company will want to open but, hey, this aint me we're talking about here. Manager would be too scared to leave the house without an armed escort if it was.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.

That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.

Board of Labor, not OSHA. 

If she was promised PTO as part of her benefits package, and she had accrued PTO available, they cannot take that away, as it is considered compensation.

Board of labor also, but because it falls under the "health" umbrella, OSHA also investigates violation of sick leave laws because one sick employee who is comes to work due to coercive policies puts the entire staff at risk. And in my experience, OSHA is much quicker to investigate and a lot less lenient than the Board of Labor.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.

*unless I'm reading this all wrong

Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.

It's a gamble, right enough. Reduce the odds by going it alone, maybe? Firing one person for taking a couple of days off (especially when they're already showing symptoms) is probably more of a can of worms than the company will want to open but, hey, this aint me we're talking about here. Manager would be too scared to leave the house without an armed escort if it was.

This is America, Pent.  Nobody actually gets scared about shit like that, unless they can't run faster than a mobility scooter.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Essential point is though; the recession gives employers more power over their employees. We now get to see people be unfeeling, immoral jerks just because they can. 

Yep, fucking monkeys.

As a possible minor point of consolation, manager's bosses tend to shit on them too. You might ask about how that process can be facilitated.