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Started by Cain, December 22, 2011, 03:52:09 PM

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Cain

December 22, 2011, 03:52:09 PM
April 2008

http://foreign.senate.gov/testimony/2008/RosenTestimony080402p.pdf

QuoteBIDEN: Based on what you've said, there's really no hope, is there? We should really get the hell out of there right now, right? There's nothing to do.

ROSEN: As a journalist, I'm uncomfortable advising an imperialist power about how to be a more efficient imperialist power. I don't think we're there for the interests of the Iraqi people. I don't that's ever been a motivation. However, I have mixed emotions on that issue. Many of my Sunni friends, beginning about a year ago, many of them who are opposed to the Americans, who supported attacking American troops in Iraq, began to grow really nervous at the idea of the Americans leaving Iraq because they knew they would be massacred. It could be Rwanda the day the Americans leave. The creation of these Sunni militias, the Awakening groups, militates against that kind of a massacre of civilians occurring because now there are actually Sunni safe zones...But I do believe that if Americans were to withdraw you'd seen an increase in violence at least temporarily, until some sort of equilibrium is reached—

Today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16297707

QuoteA wave of apparently co-ordinated bomb attacks in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, has killed at least 63 people and injured around 185, say officials.

The interior ministry told the BBC 14 blasts hit various locations, including al-Amil in the south and Halawi and Karrada closer to the centre.

The bombings are the worst in months - and follow the withdrawal of US troops.

They come amid fears of rising sectarian tensions as the unity government faces internal divisions.

It was not immediately clear who was behind the attacks.

[...]

Iraq's year-old power-sharing government is in turmoil after an arrest warrant was issued for Sunni Vice-President Tariq al-Hashemi on terror charges.

The entire al-Iraqiyya group, the main Sunni bloc in parliament, is boycotting the assembly in protest. It accuses Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, a Shia, of monopolising power.

Mr Hashemi denies the charges. He is currently in Irbil in Iraqi Kurdistan, under the protection of the regional government, but Mr Maliki has demanded that they give him up.

The BBC's Jim Muir says most Shias will conclude that Iraq's disaffected Sunni leadership was behind the latest violence.

There is a strong possibility, he says, that insurgents on the Sunni side were just waiting for the most tense moment to unleash attacks they had been planning.

Not good at all

LMNO

#1
December 22, 2011, 03:55:36 PM
Can we just go ahead and bitchslap Donald Rumsfeld?

"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months... we will be greeted as liberators."

The Good Reverend Roger

#2
December 22, 2011, 03:56:42 PM
This comes as no surprise.

Admin's gone!  Everybody throw bombs!
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Luna

#3
December 22, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
Wouldn't it have been something if they'd proven us wrong?
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Cain

#4
December 22, 2011, 04:00:30 PM
This kind of sectarianism didn't exist in Iraq before the occupation.  That's the worst part.  Yeah, there was a little bit of it, but the Americans went in with an expectation of sectarianism based on a crude misunderstanding of Saddam's regime as a "Sunni dictatorship" over the Shia.  And so they started dividing people up and giving them political power based on sectarian alleigances, not democratic legitimacy.  Throw in the disbanding of the Baath Party and the Army, the two least sectarian forces in the country, and some of the responsibility for the violence, ethnic cleansing etc lays at the feet of the CPA and Paul Bremner in particular.

Ironically, given Nir Rosen's mention of Rwanda, this is exactly what the Belgians did in that country (divided people into Hutu and Tutsi based on mostly arbitrary distinctions), just sped up.

LMNO

#5
December 22, 2011, 04:24:11 PM
So, the invading occupyers imposed ORDER on the invaded country....




...which led to the escalation of______________.



The Good Reverend Roger

#6
December 22, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 22, 2011, 04:24:11 PM
So, the invading occupyers imposed ORDER on the invaded country....




...which led to the escalation of______________.





"No-bid contracts"?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#7
December 22, 2011, 05:07:03 PM
SURPRISE

Yeah.

Fucking hell. I don't have anything coherent to say.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

The Good Reverend Roger

#8
December 22, 2011, 05:25:24 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 22, 2011, 05:07:03 PM
SURPRISE

Yeah.

Fucking hell. I don't have anything coherent to say.

I do.

The Iraqi people are now as "liberated" as you can possibly get.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Nephew Twiddleton

#9
December 22, 2011, 05:34:23 PM
Im guessing liberated here is the american definition (ie fucked)?
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Cramulus

#10
December 22, 2011, 05:42:03 PM
This is really dismaying to hear, though not unexpected. I'll be curious to see how the media chews through this. Let's hope that 63 deaths is the high point and can't be sustained.




Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 22, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 22, 2011, 04:24:11 PM
So, the invading occupyers imposed ORDER on the invaded country....




...which led to the escalation of______________.





"No-bid contracts"?

legitimate :horrormirth:

The Good Reverend Roger

#11
December 22, 2011, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: Nph. Twid. on December 22, 2011, 05:34:23 PM
Im guessing liberated here is the american definition (ie fucked)?

Shut it, or I'll "liberate" ya in the face.

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

#12
December 22, 2011, 05:55:38 PM
60 deaths was a low daily tally during the worst of the violence, in 2006. 

If the violence gets as bad as it did after the destruction of the Golden Mosque, 200+ deaths daily is not unlikely.

The thing is, what will the response be?  Lots of people are saying this is Al-Qaeda...possible, but I'm not so sure.  Either way, there'll be a race on, between the Mahdi Army and the Badr Organisation to catch the culprits.  Neither is good, but the Badr Organisation prefers to work through the police and internal security forces, which gives them a veneer of legitimacy.  If Moqtada's crew strikes back though, there could be reprisals, the government may act against the Mahdi Army, and then everything gets nice and...messy.  Lots of the Awakening (Sunni) Groups would like to see the Mahdi Army and Badr Organiation mix it up, too.

Luna

#13
December 22, 2011, 05:58:57 PM
I occasionally wonder how different the world would be if the only way we could inflict violence upon each other was with swords.

I fucking HATE bombs.  Bombs mean, "I don't care who gets fucked up, as long as I make the papers."
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

The Good Reverend Roger

#14
December 22, 2011, 06:00:11 PM
Quote from: Luna on December 22, 2011, 05:58:57 PM
I occasionally wonder how different the world would be if the only way we could inflict violence upon each other was with swords.

I fucking HATE bombs.  Bombs mean, "I don't care who gets fucked up, as long as I make the papers."

Civilians took it in the shorts WAY more, back in the swords & catapult days.

Just saying.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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