Drug Policy Needs More Centrists (NYTimes OP-Ed)

[Phox]

Horseshit, though I'm not at all surprised to see you take the opportunity to stir this particular pot.

I C WAT U DID THAR.

[East Coast Hustle]

[Telarus]

 


Hey, look at this. The government uses prisoners to staff government and outsourced call-centers. The prison industry's "best kept secret of outsourcing"...

There is a subset of people making a profit off of jailing non-violent drug offenders. Fuck this turns my stomache.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/12/10140493-inside-the-secret-industry-of-inmate-staffed-call-centers

When you call a company or government agency for help, there's a good chance the person on the other end of the line is a prison inmate.

The federal government calls it "the best-kept secret in outsourcing" — providing inmates to staff call centers and other services in both the private and public sectors.

The U.S. government, through a 75-year-old program called Federal Prison Industries, makes about $750 million a year providing prison labor, federal records show. The great majority of those contracts are with other federal agencies for services as diverse as laundry, construction, data conversion and manufacture of emergency equipment.

But the program also markets itself to businesses under a different name, Unicor, providing commercial market and product-related services. Unicor made about $10 million from "other agencies and customers" in the first six months of fiscal year 2011 (the most recent period for which official figures are available), according to an msnbc.com analysis of its sales records.

READ MORE

Original story: http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s2449477.shtml?cat=300

So the inmates get $0.50/hour and "job training" (granted, a good thing)... But a violent offender who is a violence risk in a prison won't be picked for this "job" (how many office supplies "are" shivs in need of sharpening?). The company definitely gets to charge more than minimum wage (per worker) to those it provides services to.

Rehabilitation and training seem good to me, prison factories for commercial businesses seems like slavery. Plus, the more customers they get and the more this "industry" grows... means is "we need more prisoners". Plus, with all the rhertoric last year about "training level wages", "why do waitresses make wage AND tips?!?", etc.. it seems to me that some crafty CEO has found a legal way around the minimum wage laws.

Of 50,000 Marijuana Arrests In New York City A Year, Most Are Black And Hispanic Men

NavKat's worries have come true, but its not "get in that shower".. its "get in that call-center". Dead people don't turn you a profit.


[I'll note after digging into this a bit that some prisoners in Oregon are paid to make blue jeans. But they get paid minimum wage (with 50% deducted to cover their incarceration expenses).]

[AFK]

That article is pretty tentatively linked to the topic of this thread.  And that's being generous. 

Just sayin. 

[Scribbly]

There's quotas to reach, RWHN. If we don't bring in every possible outside source which mentions weed, how will we reach 50 pages?

[East Coast Hustle]

I fail to see how the fact that there is financial motivation on the part of the prison industry to have non-violent drug offenders put in prison is irrelvant to a thread about drug policy.

[AFK]

Because there is no link between the two.  Nothing in either of those links provides any proof that their is a concerted effort to arrest non-violent drug offenders solely for the purposes of putting them to work and padding their wallets. 

Honestly, and with all due respect, it smacks of conspiracy theory the way it is presented.  It's a belief statement, but there is no cause and effect proven. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Because there is no link between the two.  Nothing in either of those links provides any proof that their is a concerted effort to arrest non-violent drug offenders solely for the purposes of putting them to work and padding their wallets. 

Honestly, and with all due respect, it smacks of conspiracy theory the way it is presented.  It's a belief statement, but there is no cause and effect proven. 

Do you really believe that corporate prison owners do not utilize lobbyists, amongst many other things?

And what standard of proof are you going by here? What criteria needs to be fulfilled to qualify as proof for you?

[Cain]

This looks kinda like proof to me

http://www.justicepolicy.org/news/2615

[Telarus]

The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the
relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction or parole standards and
sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are
currently proscribed by our criminal laws. For instance, any changes with respect
to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number
of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing
demand for correctional facilities to house them. Legislation has been proposed in
numerous jurisdictions that could lower minimum sentences for some non-violent
crimes and make more inmates eligible for early release based on good behavior.
Also, sentencing alternatives under consideration could put some offenders on
probation with electronic monitoring who would otherwise be incarcerated.
Similarly, reductions in crime rates or resources dedicated to prevent and enforce
crime could lead to reductions in arrests, convictions and sentences requiring
incarceration at correctional facilities.

~ CORRECTIONS CORPORATION OF AMERICA 2010 ANNUAL REPORT

That was quoted on page 2 of the Justice Institute report.

Page 9/10:
MORE PRISON...
Some of the most rapid increases in
incarceration occurred during the 1980s and
1990s , in part fueled by a policy shift toward
,tough on crime‛ measures such as
mandatory sentencing and ,three strikes‛
laws, ,truth-in-sentencing‛ laws that limit
parole eligibility and keep people in prison
longer, and the ,war on drugs.‛ Such policies
have sent more people — especially people
convicted of drug offenses⁴² — to prison, and
keep them there longer, thus increasing the
total number of people in prison. Such
sentencing policies have been a primary
contributor to the number of people in
prison.⁴³

42 / 43 - Alfred Blumstein and Allen J. Beck, ,Population Growth in U.S. Prisons, 1980-1996,‛ Crime and Justice 26 (1999)

Page 13:
The number of people in prison continued to rise in
2009, in part, because more people are entering
and staying in federal prisons, largely due to
increased penalties for drug law violations.
Between 2008 and 2009, the number of people
sentenced to a year in federal prison
increased by 5,553 people or 3 percent,
with the number of people in private,
federal facilities, increasing by 925 people
or 2.8 percent.53

Page18:
In Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, two local private youth prisons made illegal payments to two judges
totaling over $2.6 million. In what came to be known as the "kids for cash" scandal, the Mid Atlantic Youth
Service Corporation paid the judges for sentencing youth to confinement in their two private youth prisons.
It is estimated that over 5,000 children appeared before the two judges over the past decade, and half of
those who waived their right to counsel were sentenced to serve time in one of the private correctional
facilities.

According to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, privately owned
corporations operate more than 50 percent of youth correctional facilities in the United States.ⁱ

i - Private facilities amount to 56 percent of all entire correctional institutions for persons under the age of 20.
Department of Justice, Louisiana Juvenile Findings Letter 1. United States of Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
www.justice.gov/crt/split/documents/lajuvfind1.php


------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, this was not an "isolated incident". There was the Rampart Scandal (in LA in the late 90's), and more recently, this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/us/accused-of-misconduct-judge-amanda-williams-of-georgia-will-resign.html

Judge Williams, 64, who said she would resign on Jan. 2., faced wide-ranging misconduct accusations. She vowed not to seek another judgeship, and, as a result, those complaints will be dropped, the Georgia Judicial Qualifications Commission said. She could still face criminal charges related to her conduct.

She was first elected in 1990 to the court, which handles cases in five southeast Georgia counties. For more than a decade, she also ran the state's largest drug court.
...
According to the commission's 14-count list of charges against her, she sentenced drug-court defendants to "indefinite" detention "until further order of the court." In one case, she ordered that a defendant be denied any communication.

"Nobody! Total restriction!" she ordered, according to the complaint. "No mail, no phone calls, no visitors." The complaint says the defendant, who had a history of mental illness, spent 73 days in solitary confinement and tried to kill herself while in jail.

"Judge Williams was a person you did not cross," said J. Robert Morgan, a lawyer in Brunswick who argued cases before her. "She ruled by fear and intimidation. I've been in front of 50 judges in 34 years and I've never seen anything like her."
...

[AFK]

Because there is no link between the two.  Nothing in either of those links provides any proof that their is a concerted effort to arrest non-violent drug offenders solely for the purposes of putting them to work and padding their wallets. 

Honestly, and with all due respect, it smacks of conspiracy theory the way it is presented.  It's a belief statement, but there is no cause and effect proven. 

Do you really believe that corporate prison owners do not utilize lobbyists, amongst many other things?

And what standard of proof are you going by here? What criteria needs to be fulfilled to qualify as proof for you?

A concerted, intentional, and systematic effort to ramp up non-violent drug convictions in order to fill prisons with cheap labor.  Because that is what is being inferred, implied, etc.  I mean, from the evidence that was provided, you could infer that the system would be ramping up ANY conviction to increase the number of prisoners and feed them into this labor system. 

This thread is about drug policy, if there is evidence that this is a systematic effort to get non-violent (I would add non-trafficking) offenders in prison to be cheap labor, I would like to see it.  Not rogue judges, bad apples.  I don't argue that at all.  I'm talking about what is being inferred now in this thread that this is a system, a gang of players knowingly trumping up, ramping up non-violent drug charges for the cheap labor. 

[Scribbly]

I think this thread should be aborted before it becomes a horrible blight on the board. I don't see anything productive coming out of it. Just more of this:  from all parties.

[AFK]

This looks kinda like proof to me

http://www.justicepolicy.org/news/2615

Not from my perspective.  It does not prove what is being purported in this thread now which is an increase in the number of non-violent drug offenders in an effort to provide cheap labor and to make the prisons money. 

My experience is that more and more states are doing what Maine is doing and looking for ways to keep non-violent (non-trafficking) marijuana users out of prison.  I won't rule out there may be specific areas, maybe specific states where something like this might be prone to happen.  But I'm not seeing proof of an organized, national effort aimed at specifically increasing the number of non-violent drug offenders in prisons. 

[Scribbly]

[East Coast Hustle]

Because there is no link between the two.  Nothing in either of those links provides any proof that their is a concerted effort to arrest non-violent drug offenders solely for the purposes of putting them to work and padding their wallets. 

Honestly, and with all due respect, it smacks of conspiracy theory the way it is presented.  It's a belief statement, but there is no cause and effect proven. 

Do you really believe that corporate prison owners do not utilize lobbyists, amongst many other things?

And what standard of proof are you going by here? What criteria needs to be fulfilled to qualify as proof for you?

A concerted, intentional, and systematic effort to ramp up non-violent drug convictions in order to fill prisons with cheap labor.  Because that is what is being inferred, implied, etc.  I mean, from the evidence that was provided, you could infer that the system would be ramping up ANY conviction to increase the number of prisoners and feed them into this labor system. 

This thread is about drug policy, if there is evidence that this is a systematic effort to get non-violent (I would add non-trafficking) offenders in prison to be cheap labor, I would like to see it.  Not rogue judges, bad apples.  I don't argue that at all.  I'm talking about what is being inferred now in this thread that this is a system, a gang of players knowingly trumping up, ramping up non-violent drug charges for the cheap labor. 

With all due respect, this comes off as a sort of "MY FINGERS ARE IN MY EARS I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA".