Drug Policy Needs More Centrists (NYTimes OP-Ed)

[Cain]

There. I just short-circuted past 7 pages at least.

Yo momma short-circuited seven pages.  With her FACE.

Cain,
making up the other 23

[Nephew Twiddleton]

twid
helping cain

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This thread has given me pause to think.

Specifically, it has made me wonder how often the same people have to get mugged on the same street by the same people, in exactly the same manner, before folks call them rubes?

[BadBeast]

Fread's dead! 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

[Phox]

This thread has given me pause to think.

Specifically, it has made me wonder how often the same people have to get mugged on the same street by the same people, in exactly the same manner, before folks call them rubes?

My personal thoughts on that: more than twice. The first one might have been a fluke. The second, well, now you know where they hang out, and what they're gonna do, so if it happens again, it's your own damn fault.

[AFK]

I honestly don't think I would really be cut out to be much of a mugger.

I'm too much of a people pleaser. 

[Telarus]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

[Edit: Here's a story with a link to the abstract.]
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

[Edit: Here's a story with a link to the abstract.]
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I honestly don't think I would really be cut out to be much of a mugger.

I'm too much of a people pleaser.

I'm still trying to figure out if your the mugger or the muggee Given the past threads, I think its more like a Battle Royal kind of Mugging

I will point out to the posts that show evidence of no physical harm though, that it doesn't address the concerns RWHN has stated several times. His concern is with the effect of the drug on the life of young people. While I disagree with his position on prohibition and I disagree with the propaganda used by the ONDCP (most of which is often demonstrably false)... I have seen kids ruin the potential in their lives and marijuana has often been a part of that equation (it appears more like a symptom than a cause to me, but that's probably subjective).

One kid I met in the SCA. He was 13 and loved to cook... he was apprenticed to a cooking Laurel and even ran a complete (documented) medieval feast for 200 people. He was offered a full scholarship to the Culinary Institute of America. Then he started having serious family problems, then he started smoking pot, then things got worse and worse and now he's the manager of a call center.

Another guy I met (as an adult) was extremely intelligent, brilliantly gifted in understanding engineering, mechanics and computers... he has no job to speak of, because he got arrested multiple times for possession as a teen, then moved on to meth because he didn't have anything better to do.

In both cases, I think Marijuana was an escape for problems at home. without marijuana its likely that these people would still have crashed and burned. However, the pot didn't help matters.

I think RWHN has a legitimate concern, I just disagree with his opinion on how best to deal with that concern.

[AFK]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

I think the guy being quoted in that story might have gone a little overboard when he said:

Mr Balderstone said the "fear and paranoia of smoking under prohibition" is also one of the biggest causes of mental illness in cannabis users.

I dunno, I've known a lot of marijuana smokers and while they weren't exactly peachy keen with it being illegal, they weren't exactly losing their marbles over it either.  I think he might have jumped the shark there. 

[AFK]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

[Edit: Here's a story with a link to the abstract.]
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental

But, the researchers said that the advantage was small and might reflect another finding, that people who use drugs generally have a higher education level than non-users. A small subset of the participants who said that they had been treated for drug use, which may suggest more of an addiction, or very heavy use, did not fare as well cognitively at 50, but researchers say the subset was too small to draw a meaningful conclusion.
Researchers did caution that heavy or long term use of any illicit drugs may still be bad for brain function. Past studies have found that marijuana and cocaine can cloud thinking, affect memory and attention span, but the current finding add support that those effects may only be temporary.

But when we look at heavy use of substances, this study does suggest some impairment.  So if everyone uses marijuana responsibly and doesn't abuse it, then sure, everything should be fine.  But kids aren't equipped to successfully and consistently exercise that restraint, as well as your adults who are prone to abuse.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that "normal" or moderate usage of the drug does not create significant impariment. 

The question then becomes, how many drug users are able to exercise that restraint? 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

[Edit: Here's a story with a link to the abstract.]
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental

But, the researchers said that the advantage was small and might reflect another finding, that people who use drugs generally have a higher education level than non-users. A small subset of the participants who said that they had been treated for drug use, which may suggest more of an addiction, or very heavy use, did not fare as well cognitively at 50, but researchers say the subset was too small to draw a meaningful conclusion.
Researchers did caution that heavy or long term use of any illicit drugs may still be bad for brain function. Past studies have found that marijuana and cocaine can cloud thinking, affect memory and attention span, but the current finding add support that those effects may only be temporary.

But when we look at heavy use of substances, this study does suggest some impairment.  So if everyone uses marijuana responsibly and doesn't abuse it, then sure, everything should be fine.  But kids aren't equipped to successfully and consistently exercise that restraint, as well as your adults who are prone to abuse.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that "normal" or moderate usage of the drug does not create significant impariment. 

The question then becomes, how many drug users are able to exercise that restraint?

Honestly? Every pot smoker I've ever met, with the exception of a couple kids and one guy that had serious pain issues and smoked to deal with it. He would get impaired, but he claimed it was less impaired than using whatever drug it was his doctor had described.

Some people might smoke more than usual at a party... but its not their daily or average routine.

Do some people exist that can't handle it? Sure, just like with alcohol, or food, or television or anything else that people can use to run away from their problems.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

I think the guy being quoted in that story might have gone a little overboard when he said:

Mr Balderstone said the "fear and paranoia of smoking under prohibition" is also one of the biggest causes of mental illness in cannabis users.

I dunno, I've known a lot of marijuana smokers and while they weren't exactly peachy keen with it being illegal, they weren't exactly losing their marbles over it either.  I think he might have jumped the shark there.

There was a study I remember reading which claimed higher rates of mental illness among Jamaican immigrants to places where pot was prohibited than Jamaicans that were in Jamaica or Holland. Correlation, I would say... but both sides of the drug debate love to take correlation and pass it off as causation

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Ill just leave this here then

http://news.yahoo.com/marijuana-doesnt-harm-lung-function-study-found-210146886.html

Saw that. Here's another.

http://www.northernstar.com.au/story/2012/01/09/memory-loss-fears-over-cannabis-use-up-in-smoke/

[Edit: Here's a story with a link to the abstract.]
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/drug-law/uk-study-shows-middle-aged-males-marijuana-usage-not-detrimental

But, the researchers said that the advantage was small and might reflect another finding, that people who use drugs generally have a higher education level than non-users. A small subset of the participants who said that they had been treated for drug use, which may suggest more of an addiction, or very heavy use, did not fare as well cognitively at 50, but researchers say the subset was too small to draw a meaningful conclusion.
Researchers did caution that heavy or long term use of any illicit drugs may still be bad for brain function. Past studies have found that marijuana and cocaine can cloud thinking, affect memory and attention span, but the current finding add support that those effects may only be temporary.

But when we look at heavy use of substances, this study does suggest some impairment.  So if everyone uses marijuana responsibly and doesn't abuse it, then sure, everything should be fine.  But kids aren't equipped to successfully and consistently exercise that restraint, as well as your adults who are prone to abuse.  It doesn't surprise me in the least that "normal" or moderate usage of the drug does not create significant impariment. 

The question then becomes, how many drug users are able to exercise that restraint?

Oh hell, why not...

With pot it's not really restraint. It's not much of moremoremoremore drug. Of course, when it becomes a cool rebellious thing cause of, I dunno, whatever factors may lead to it being viewed as a cool rebellious thing, then the cool rebellious thing is to one up your peers by literally forcing yourself to smoke copious amounts.

...aaaaand. I'm sure someone could quite quickly pull up some statistics or other that pertain to the efficacy of "norming", versus abstinence based approaches, in encouraging moderate use.