Drug Policy Needs More Centrists (NYTimes OP-Ed)

[East Coast Hustle]

Thing is, I've never know anyone who volunteered to go into rehab for pot. It's always court-mandated or school-mandated.

I had to go to outpatient rehab for awhile in high school to avoid getting kicked out of school and sent to the alternative high school. I was literally stoned every time I went to rehab, except for the time I was high on acid. I told the counselors exactly what they needed to hear and even passed the random piss tests with the help of some trickery. And literally every single other person in my rehab group was doing the same thing. Nobody actually wanted (or needed) to be there, it was just some kids who got caught smoking or selling at school and took the path of least resistance when it came time to deal with the consequences.

Of course, if you'd ever smoked a joint you'd know all this already.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

My own experiences as well as talking with other people who have used it. And that most people who smoked kinda left behind once booze was available to them. Anybody who smokes too much imo is using it to escape. Like i said ive had my own abuse problems but never with thc nor have i known anyone else to. Like rat said i suppose its possible but its gotta be rare if it is.

[AFK]

Fair enough.  It is true that kids may be required to undergo a full assessment for substance abuse as a term of returning to school.  But the thing is, if they don't meet the criteria, they won't go through the treatment process.  If they do, they will.  And if they go in as an unwilling participant, it is very likely, if not certain, that it won't work. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I would tend to think a good counselor worth their salt will know when they are being BS'ed.  The ones I know are pretty savy and tend to know when someone is filling them full of shit.  But, at the same time, if someone is in treatment and doesn't want to play ball, it isn't going to work.  While the science is there, the science can't extract an individuals heels from the earth. 

I would argue that isn't a failure of treatment, that is a failure of the individual. 

Of course, this can happen with chemical treatment regimens as well.  Like the guy prescribed cholesterol-lowering medications who makes nightly trips to KFC.  The patient needs to be on board with the program.

So then, I guess the takeaway here is that I (like FU1I) have never met a person that wanted to be on board with the program... plenty that pretended to be on board and didn't have to go to jail... but they never saw pot smoking as a problem and never stopped. Are our experiences out of line with the norm? Are there lots of people begging for help getting off the weed?

More interestingly, are the 'addiction' stories that are being told to these councilors true, or bull shit? In all the cases I'm aware of, the 'addict' told it was BS. But again, maybe I ended up in some weird scenario where my experiences aren't the norm.

[AFK]

My own experiences as well as talking with other people who have used it. And that most people who smoked kinda left behind once booze was available to them. Anybody who smokes too much imo is using it to escape. Like i said ive had my own abuse problems but never with thc nor have i known anyone else to. Like rat said i suppose its possible but its gotta be rare if it is.

Is it possible that your social circles would exclude the type of people who would willingly seek treatment for drug addiction?   

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Fair enough.  It is true that kids may be required to undergo a full assessment for substance abuse as a term of returning to school.  But the thing is, if they don't meet the criteria, they won't go through the treatment process.  If they do, they will.  And if they go in as an unwilling participant, it is very likely, if not certain, that it won't work.

I think we're talking past each other here.

You're approaching it from the perspective that Person X needs help, but if they're not willing... it won't work. However, its possible that Person X doen't need help, but finds lying to a councilor much easier than spending time in Juvie or Jail. Further, the stories of 'addiction' (in at least some cases) are outright fabrications designed to get the user through the process and out so they can get back to their life.*

I feel like there's this huge flower vase sitting on the table between us and we simply can't communicate through it.

My own experiences as well as talking with other people who have used it. And that most people who smoked kinda left behind once booze was available to them. Anybody who smokes too much imo is using it to escape. Like i said ive had my own abuse problems but never with thc nor have i known anyone else to. Like rat said i suppose its possible but its gotta be rare if it is.

Is it possible that your social circles would exclude the type of people who would willingly seek treatment for drug addiction?   

My social circles include artists, businessmen, techies, chefs, blue collar workers, white collar workers, SCAdians, drug dealers, hippies, etc. I'm also good friends with a devout Catholic/Mason/Discordian/Pot Smoker that just got his PHD in psych. He didn't smoke during school, he did smoke when he came home to visit. He claimed that he never had any problems at all... and discussed at length things like addiction etc. (You see we stoners often discuss this stuff amongst each other as well).




*At least in the experiences of people I've talked with.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Maybe maybe not. I would have to follow up on all of them and see what their drinking habits are like. Considering i just got back in contact with one and hes now a father of two and quit smoking tobacco if he had any abuse problems then yes he would seek help.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

50 pages.  Easy.

[AFK]

So then, I guess the takeaway here is that I (like FU1I) have never met a person that wanted to be on board with the program... plenty that pretended to be on board and didn't have to go to jail... but they never saw pot smoking as a problem and never stopped. Are our experiences out of line with the norm? Are there lots of people begging for help getting off the weed?

Well, I offer you this.  In Maine, between 2010 and the beginning of 2012, according to our Treatment Data System, 1208 youth up to the age of 21 were seeking treatment services and idenitified marijuana as the primary substance.  Do you think all 1208 of those young people are like the people you have known?  If so, how could you be sure? 

More interestingly, are the 'addiction' stories that are being told to these councilors true, or bull shit? In all the cases I'm aware of, the 'addict' told it was BS. But again, maybe I ended up in some weird scenario where my experiences aren't the norm.

A seasoned and qualified counselor will smell bullshit from a mile away, in my experience anyway.   

[Freeky]

50 pages.  Easy.

Even so, this thread is only 5 days old and 6 pages long.

The homeopathy thread, on the other hand, is 20 pages and three days old.

Homeopathy is the new drug thread!

[LMNO]

Imagine how stoned I would get if I diluted my pot with water!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

50 pages.  Easy.

Even so, this thread is only 5 days old and 6 pages long.

The homeopathy thread, on the other hand, is 20 pages and three days old.

Homeopathy is the new drug thread!

Doesn't matter. 

[Freeky]

50 pages.  Easy.

Even so, this thread is only 5 days old and 6 pages long.

The homeopathy thread, on the other hand, is 20 pages and three days old.

Homeopathy is the new drug thread!

Doesn't matter.

Yeah.  Once it started drifting to other articles than the OP, it is bound to happen.

[AFK]

Fair enough.  It is true that kids may be required to undergo a full assessment for substance abuse as a term of returning to school.  But the thing is, if they don't meet the criteria, they won't go through the treatment process.  If they do, they will.  And if they go in as an unwilling participant, it is very likely, if not certain, that it won't work.

I think we're talking past each other here.

You're approaching it from the perspective that Person X needs help, but if they're not willing... it won't work. However, its possible that Person X doen't need help, but finds lying to a councilor much easier than spending time in Juvie or Jail. Further, the stories of 'addiction' (in at least some cases) are outright fabrications designed to get the user through the process and out so they can get back to their life.*

I feel like there's this huge flower vase sitting on the table between us and we simply can't communicate through it.

But the thing is, if they don't meet the criteria for treatment, they won't get it.  Because, of course, someone needs to pay for this treatment.  If the individual doesn't have insurance, the state will probably be picking up the bill.  And they are not going to pay for it if the state-mandated assessment says "Nope, no treatment necessary." 

Again, unless the counselor is a complete quack, which of course is possible, they are going to sniff out when they are being sold bullshit.  If they are like the counselors I know, they have waiting lists.  THey aren't going to waste their time with people who have no interest in the treatment when they have other people waiting just to get in who do.  It just wouldn't make any sense. 

But, I will stipulate that perhaps we have a different culture amongst treatment providers here in Maine.  It seems unlikely to me, but I won't rule it out. 

[Freeky]

Imagine how stoned I would get if I diluted my pot with water!

SHIT FUCK DAMN!