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Maybe stupid question

Started by Nephew Twiddleton, January 16, 2012, 06:04:19 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
January 16, 2012, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: navkat on January 16, 2012, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 16, 2012, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: navkat on January 16, 2012, 06:12:37 PM
Rock is ALL blues and jazz, bruvah.

No, it isn't. 

1.  Jazz has nothing to do with rock n roll.  Scat jazz inspired rap, but that's about it, other than the idea that you can use your instruments the way you like, rather than strictly for "classical" type music.

2.  Blues DID have a lot to do with rock n roll, but rock n roll is more closely tied to R&B than pure blues.  What blues and the best bits of rock n roll have in common is that they have something to say.  Likewise, glitter rock differs from glam rock in that glitter rock is usually talking about things other than getting laid or pining after an old flame.  Glam rock is essentially the music world's answer to Romance novels, while glitter rock was a bunch of guys trying out something new and looking FABULOUS while they did it.

If you wanna get technical, both Jazz and Blues (and country too) are derived from Gospel. Think tempo and chord progression.

I give you the Pres Hall Jazz Band:
http://video.pbs.org/video/2151153549/

Proving BOTH of us right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHHcpao52DQ

I'm not gonna argue at all, from a technical perspective, because I don't know all that much about music on a technical level (ie, how chords were developed, etc).  However, I am gonna say that the ideas behind blues and R&B are a lot closer to rock n roll than Jazz is.

Also, the ideas that have remained throughout the years rock n roll has existed have far more to do with the blues than anything else.  Country, on the other hand, has stuck with a combination of blues and Gospel, though in recent years pop rock has shoved its snotty nose in (Taylor Swift and that yahoo from Australia whose name escapes me).
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

navkat

#16
January 16, 2012, 07:06:02 PM
How so? Not trying to be obstinate here but how are the ideas behind The Blues different than the ideas (I assume you mean feelings) behind the second link I showed you?

The Good Reverend Roger

#17
January 16, 2012, 07:07:07 PM
Quote from: navkat on January 16, 2012, 07:06:02 PM
How so? Not trying to be obstinate here but how are the ideas behind The Blues different than the ideas (I assume you mean feelings) behind the second link I showed you?

Not sure yet.  I can't see youtube from this computer.  Until I can see it from the laptop, I kind of have to argue from experience.  When I see the link, I may have a change of opinion.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

navkat

#18
January 16, 2012, 07:32:54 PM
Fair enough.

I get into arguments all the time about how much of House music is actually derived from The Blues as well. People can't put together how "Red House" (Hendrix) relates "Don't Leave Me This Way" (Thelma Houston) and how that takes you to a lot of the Classic House music of the late 80s - 90s with the soulful "Black Diva" vocals until I put it to them that way.

Nephew Twiddleton

#19
January 16, 2012, 07:46:43 PM
To quickly put things into layman's terms, you have the do re mi sort of stuff. This is usually expressed as I ii iii IV V vi vii-

I, IV, and V are major chords. ii iii and vi are minor chords. vii- sounds like shit in the majority of contexts because it contains the devil's note relative to it's root.

The majority of Western music is based off of I, IV, V, and vi. This goes for blues, country, rock and jazz on a basic level.

But, again, this is on a very basic level since all of those genres will use all of those chords, and even chords not included in this theme. Especially jazz, which makes it a point to do that sort of thing.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

The Good Reverend Roger

#20
January 16, 2012, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 16, 2012, 07:46:43 PM
To quickly put things into layman's terms, you have the do re mi sort of stuff. This is usually expressed as I ii iii IV V vi vii-

I, IV, and V are major chords. ii iii and vi are minor chords. vii- sounds like shit in the majority of contexts because it contains the devil's note relative to it's root.

The majority of Western music is based off of I, IV, V, and vi. This goes for blues, country, rock and jazz on a basic level.

But, again, this is on a very basic level since all of those genres will use all of those chords, and even chords not included in this theme. Especially jazz, which makes it a point to do that sort of thing.

We're arguing structure and not content, here.

Just saying.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

AFK

#21
January 16, 2012, 07:48:41 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 16, 2012, 07:46:43 PM
I, IV, and V are major chords. ii iii and vi are minor chords. vii- sounds like shit in the majority of contexts because it contains the devil's note relative to it's root.

Thankfully, the devil invented Tony Iommi. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

#22
January 16, 2012, 07:49:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 16, 2012, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 16, 2012, 07:46:43 PM
To quickly put things into layman's terms, you have the do re mi sort of stuff. This is usually expressed as I ii iii IV V vi vii-

I, IV, and V are major chords. ii iii and vi are minor chords. vii- sounds like shit in the majority of contexts because it contains the devil's note relative to it's root.

The majority of Western music is based off of I, IV, V, and vi. This goes for blues, country, rock and jazz on a basic level.

But, again, this is on a very basic level since all of those genres will use all of those chords, and even chords not included in this theme. Especially jazz, which makes it a point to do that sort of thing.

We're arguing structure and not content, here.

Just saying.

The chords are an important part of the structure though, and I think that's where navkat is coming from (typical chord progressions), but I could be wrong.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

The Good Reverend Roger

#23
January 16, 2012, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 16, 2012, 07:49:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 16, 2012, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 16, 2012, 07:46:43 PM
To quickly put things into layman's terms, you have the do re mi sort of stuff. This is usually expressed as I ii iii IV V vi vii-

I, IV, and V are major chords. ii iii and vi are minor chords. vii- sounds like shit in the majority of contexts because it contains the devil's note relative to it's root.

The majority of Western music is based off of I, IV, V, and vi. This goes for blues, country, rock and jazz on a basic level.

But, again, this is on a very basic level since all of those genres will use all of those chords, and even chords not included in this theme. Especially jazz, which makes it a point to do that sort of thing.

We're arguing structure and not content, here.

Just saying.

The chords are an important part of the structure though, and I think that's where navkat is coming from (typical chord progressions), but I could be wrong.

Well, if we're discussing structure, I am out of anything resembling knowledge of the subject, and am not really qualified to continue.

TGRR,
Understands music as heard, not as played.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

navkat

#24
January 16, 2012, 07:53:54 PM
That's how I started off but then Rog specified that to him, it was about "ideas." I assume he means "feeling."

I personally feel like both are true.

The Good Reverend Roger

#25
January 16, 2012, 07:54:35 PM
Quote from: navkat on January 16, 2012, 07:53:54 PM
That's how I started off but then Rog specified that to him, it was about "ideas." I assume he means "feeling."

I personally feel like both are true.

Yep.  You two talk structure, I'm gonna cart my "racist" ass of somewhere else.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Dysfunctional Cunt

#26
January 16, 2012, 07:54:59 PM
HOLD ON!!!

I actually put a bit of time and thought into my suggestions even if I did say off the top of my head...  :wink:

You didn't like any of them?   :oops:

The Good Reverend Roger

#27
January 16, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: Khara on January 16, 2012, 07:54:59 PM
HOLD ON!!!

I actually put a bit of time and thought into my suggestions even if I did say off the top of my head...  :wink:

You didn't like any of them?   :oops:

Yeah, but you and I were talking about something else entirely, I think.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

#28
January 16, 2012, 08:00:13 PM
no glam rock tribute would be complete without...

Mott the Hoople - All the young dudes

T-Rex - pretty much anything

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
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Dysfunctional Cunt

#29
January 16, 2012, 08:00:25 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 16, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: Khara on January 16, 2012, 07:54:59 PM
HOLD ON!!!

I actually put a bit of time and thought into my suggestions even if I did say off the top of my head...  :wink:

You didn't like any of them?   :oops:

Yeah, but you and I were talking about something else entirely, I think.

Oh...  :oops:

Damn. My bad.
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