Is money private property?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I asked this question in my sociology class yesterday and it shut the class down. I know we treat it as private property, but is it really?

The definition I am using (feel free to add your own definition if you don't agree with this one) is that money is a government-defined representation of the exchange of goods and services, used as currency in trade.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I consider it little slips of paper (or ones and zeros on a piece of plastic) that say ive worked x amount of hours so im entitled to that beer.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Or maybe put a little better- a measurement of my energy expended on things which can then be exchanged for things generally agreed upon to be worth a certain amount of my time the hospital thinks is worth.

[Cramulus]

Wow, mind lazors! I was musing about that topic this morning.

I was thinking that if we lived in a more communal society, hoarding wealth would be seen as depriving the community of resources. Everybody would see it as decadence. As opposed to in capitalism, somebody that's wealthy is clearly doing it right.

I visualize these anti-tax libertarians, they feel like taxes are stealing their wealth. And they probably don't see roads, libraries, schools, police departments as their property too.

Is wealth the amount of cash you have hoarded, or your amount of cash-flow? I think if you view wealth as cash-flow, money-as-private-property makes less sense.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I consider it little slips of paper (or ones and zeros on a piece of plastic) that say ive worked x amount of hours so im entitled to that beer.

Right... so we're on the same page regarding the definition. But do you think it's private property?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Wow, mind lazors! I was musing about that topic this morning.

I was thinking that if we lived in a more communal society, hoarding wealth would be seen as depriving the community of resources. Everybody would see it as decadence. As opposed to in capitalism, somebody that's wealthy is clearly doing it right.

I visualize these anti-tax libertarians, they feel like taxes are stealing their wealth. And they probably don't see roads, libraries, schools, police departments as their property too.

Is wealth the amount of cash you have hoarded, or your amount of cash-flow? I think if you view wealth as cash-flow, money-as-private-property makes less sense.

Oooh, good! I'm glad the question is out there floating around and getting into people's brains!

I like your thoughts on this...

[LMNO]

Perhaps money is potential private property?  If you don't use it, it doesn't do (or mean) very much.  But you can use it to purchase private property.  Money is the means to aquire private property.

Did I just call money a verb?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

No i wouldnt say i consider it private property. I would say more that it represents my contribution to society (in my case understanding cancer or entertainment).

Its more like evidence rather than something. If you steal ten dollars off of me youre not stealing me of something i own but rather negating an hour of my time that i could have had fun with (after taxes).

[Cramulus]

I think this question also only makes sense for fiat currency. If the dollar is like an ownership deed for a small piece of a gold bar somewhere, then it's definitely private property, no?

In totally straight legal terms, of course money is private property -- I can't just help myself to money from your wallet, that's your money.

The definition I am using (feel free to add your own definition if you don't agree with this one) is that money is a government-defined representation of the exchange of goods and services, used as currency in trade.

Forgive me if I'm squinting too hard at this, but how can money symbolically represent the trade AND be the thing being traded?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Money makes sense to me as a verb. I like that idea.

[Cramulus]

how did the discussion in your class go, Nigel?

[East Coast Hustle]

Actually, in strictly legal terms, money is NOT private property, at least not in the USA. I'm pretty sure it's the property of the federal reserve.

It's a federal crime to deface currency in a manner that renders it unfit for circulation.

[Lord Cataplanga]

I think money is like a debt, like if you have X amount of money, that means the rest of the world owes you some amount of good and services that is worth X.

You can spend your money to acquire someone else's private property, but you can also use it to get someone to perform a service (is the time of the person providing the service "private property"?).

I think money it sometimes makes sense to think of money as a form of private property, especially in the case of microeconomics. It makes less sense in the realms of finance and macroeconomics, though.

[Cain]

This question clearly has to be dealt with on at least two levels.

Are individual bits of money private property?  I can see arguments for both sides of this.

Is money as a concept private property?  Not really.  In this case, the actions of individuals can have very large impact on the holdings of all, or at least a large number of people within a nation-state territory.  Hoarding it, burning it, engaging in highly volatile speculative practices, spending it on expensive programs... all of these can and will impact on the value of money you "own".  In that larger sense, the idea of money as private property is a kind of fiction, as one cannot assert sovereign control over it.  If I had 3000 iPods, and then burnt them, I'd be an idiot, but it wouldn't otherwise affect anyone elses iPods.  I have £3 billion and I burnt it, however, it would have significant impact on all the money everyone else owns.

[Cramulus]

Actually, in strictly legal terms, money is NOT private property, at least not in the USA. I'm pretty sure it's the property of the federal reserve.

It's a federal crime to deface currency in a manner that renders it unfit for circulation.

Do you mean the little slips of paper we trade, or the value that those slips represent? I think the green slips of paper are definitely owned by the Federal Reserve, but are the assets in your bank account federal property? If so, it would be illegal (theft, in fact!) to move your money offshore, right?

I feel so uneducated about economics right now.

In that larger sense, the idea of money as private property is a kind of fiction, as one cannot assert sovereign control over it.

great point... here's my question - is value something you can have sovereign control of? I mean, in your ipod example, burning 3000 ipods might actually change apple's supply/demand, and thereby affect everybody's ipod's value.

By that logic, could you say NOTHING is private property, because its value is determined by stuff like market forces?