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Reality-Based Engineering: Not Company Policy

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, February 08, 2012, 03:22:13 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

February 08, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
Okay, so we put in two flow meters on a couple of process loops.  The flow meters indicated that the flow in the pipes weren't what we thought they were, and definitely aren't right.  We checked the meters and then physically verified the flow further down the process.  The meters are accurate, and the flow isn't what it is supposed to be.

Mike the Engineer's response:  Adjust the gain on the meters until they say what we expected to see.

:whack:

Here's the funny:  Most engineers are like this.  Including the ones who keep the power on and the sewers working.

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Elder Iptuous

#1
February 08, 2012, 04:09:41 PM
wtf?!
that's messed up.  Did he just decide that the flow was suitable where it is and wanted to sweep it under the rug?
whatever the case, this guy's a shitty engineer.
now, i've only worked at one place since i came out of the box, so i'm curious what the extent of your basis is for the claim that "most engineers are like this."?
also, do i recall correctly that you said this guy is an actual PE?

Luna

#2
February 08, 2012, 04:26:25 PM
I just...  damn.

How bad is it that the flow isn't what you expect?
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

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"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

The Good Reverend Roger

#3
February 08, 2012, 05:29:06 PM
Quote from: Luna on February 08, 2012, 04:26:25 PM
I just...  damn.

How bad is it that the flow isn't what you expect?

It explains a few problems we've been having with nuisance alarms.

Nothing serious...But the point is that this was the engineer's solution for a problem.



@Iptuous:  Yeah, he's a PE.  And I've only met two engineers that weren't like this.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#4
February 08, 2012, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 08, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
Okay, so we put in two flow meters on a couple of process loops.  The flow meters indicated that the flow in the pipes weren't what we thought they were, and definitely aren't right.  We checked the meters and then physically verified the flow further down the process.  The meters are accurate, and the flow isn't what it is supposed to be.

Mike the Engineer's response:  Adjust the gain on the meters until they say what we expected to see.

:whack:

Here's the funny:  Most engineers are like this.  Including the ones who keep the power on and the sewers working.

:lulz:

That explains so, so much.  :lol:
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Luna

#5
February 08, 2012, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 08, 2012, 05:29:06 PM
Quote from: Luna on February 08, 2012, 04:26:25 PM
I just...  damn.

How bad is it that the flow isn't what you expect?

It explains a few problems we've been having with nuisance alarms.

Nothing serious...But the point is that this was the engineer's solution for a problem.



@Iptuous:  Yeah, he's a PE.  And I've only met two engineers that weren't like this.

Engineer = idiot, I got that part, I was wondering if he was idiot enough to blow up your plant, is all.  If so, I would be forced to smuggle myself to Tuscon via U.S. Mail and explain my displeasure to him with a blunt object.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Elder Iptuous

#6
February 08, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
is the process not working, and that is why the meters were put in place? (to determine and control the flow)
or was the process working fine, and when the new meters were put in place the filthy engineer decided that the process is robust enough to handle the current flow, and changing the meters to lie is simply easier (although improper) than going through the procedure needed to change the process to allow for current flow?

The Good Reverend Roger

#7
February 08, 2012, 08:23:33 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on February 08, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
is the process not working, and that is why the meters were put in place? (to determine and control the flow)
or was the process working fine, and when the new meters were put in place the filthy engineer decided that the process is robust enough to handle the current flow, and changing the meters to lie is simply easier (although improper) than going through the procedure needed to change the process to allow for current flow?

The meters were installed as predictive maintenance, in a pair of process loops that have given us nuisance alarms further upstream.  It basically allows the operations geeks to see the flow instead of just the pressure, which allows them to flush plugged lines BEFORE a blowout, instead of just cleaning up the mess and installing new pipe (the pipe is carrying max-chloride HCl and ACH).

And the results are not what Mike had earlier proclaimed would be the case, so the only rational thing to do is lie to yourself by offsetting the display, instead of thinking that maybe something you didn't think of might be going on.

In short, Mike's ego > not potentially dumping 50 gallons of acid slurry on an operator at 3AM.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Elder Iptuous

#8
February 08, 2012, 08:25:31 PM
:facepalm:
and this is widely known?  that he does shit like this?

Luna

#9
February 08, 2012, 08:26:04 PM
Right. Blunt object tiem.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Juana

#10
February 08, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
...That seems like a radically bad idea, adjusting the meters to match expectations. Like, potentially fucking shit seriously up bad. What the hell.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Faust

#11
February 08, 2012, 08:38:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 08, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
Okay, so we put in two flow meters on a couple of process loops.  The flow meters indicated that the flow in the pipes weren't what we thought they were, and definitely aren't right.  We checked the meters and then physically verified the flow further down the process.  The meters are accurate, and the flow isn't what it is supposed to be.

Mike the Engineer's response:  Adjust the gain on the meters until they say what we expected to see.

:whack:

Here's the funny:  Most engineers are like this.  Including the ones who keep the power on and the sewers working.

:lulz:
As someone who's primary degree was calibration, not only is what he is doing going to cause huge problems with the process down the line but someone could die
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Good Reverend Roger

#12
February 08, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
People, you just don't understand.

Mike is the main character.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Faust

#13
February 08, 2012, 09:04:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 08, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
People, you just don't understand.

Mike is the main character.

Well I'm also mike and I know if I pulled that shit I wouldn't expect to have a job for very much longer.

Edit: Its not even like flowmeters are hard to calibrate or expensive to replace.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Phox

#14
February 08, 2012, 09:08:54 PM
WOW. Roger, please tell me that the next time something like this happens, you're going to strip him naked and send him down the pipe with a flashlight and a screwdriver to fix the problem.
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