On Freedom of Speech, Rush and the Turkish viewpoint

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Bah! Next you'll be telling us that people should be allowed to own sports cars.

[Doktor Howl]

Turks don't dispute the war, or the deaths... they only dispute the term genocide.

And what happens if you say it was a genocide?

[Doktor Howl]

Bah! Next you'll be telling us that people should be allowed to own sports cars.

Personally, I think I should be able to carry an RPG7 around, if I so choose.

Or a sack of hand grenades.

[Don Coyote]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Bah! Next you'll be telling us that people should be allowed to own sports cars.

Personally, I think I should be able to carry an RPG7 around, if I so choose.

Or a sack of hand grenades.

That would make the morning commute more interesting.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

[Doktor Howl]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Bah! Next you'll be telling us that people should be allowed to own sports cars.

Personally, I think I should be able to carry an RPG7 around, if I so choose.

Or a sack of hand grenades.

That would make the morning commute more interesting.

And more polite.

Arizona has many, many flaws, but people here are almost always polite to each other, as you have no way of knowing who is armed.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

I figure that in a case of civil liberty, I always err on the side of the individual.

Also, according to Jefferson and Madison, the primary goal of "the militia" was as a threat to the state, should the state become tyranny.  Now, I'm not about to argue that the average American has the stones to actually DO anything, but limiting The People to revolvers or lever-action rifles kinda makes the whole thing useless.

[East Coast Hustle]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

Until the gun range has a BAR and some old vehicles I can shoot to pieces with it, fuck that shit. I want to shoot MY guns at MY targets on MY land.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Bah! Next you'll be telling us that people should be allowed to own sports cars.

Personally, I think I should be able to carry an RPG7 around, if I so choose.

Or a sack of hand grenades.

That would make the morning commute more interesting.

And more polite.

Arizona has many, many flaws, but people here are almost always polite to each other, as you have no way of knowing who is armed.

Actually, I saw that once. I was driving with someone and we noticed that a collision had taken place between a car from Texas and a car from New Hampshire. The other person commented on how they were being very calm about it in comparison to how a Masshole would handle it. I pointed out that they both probably have guns.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

I figure that in a case of civil liberty, I always err on the side of the individual.

Also, according to Jefferson and Madison, the primary goal of "the militia" was as a threat to the state, should the state become tyranny.  Now, I'm not about to argue that the average American has the stones to actually DO anything, but limiting The People to revolvers or lever-action rifles kinda makes the whole thing useless.

Fair point.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

I believe it. I'm not really sure where I fall on the gun control thing. But I figure if you want to shoot the heavy duty stuff you can use the ones that they have at the gun range.

Until the gun range has a BAR and some old vehicles I can shoot to pieces with it, fuck that shit. I want to shoot MY guns at MY targets on MY land.

Also, it's the principle of the thing.  I demand the right to own firearms, to speak my mind, to write what I please, to associate with whom I please, and a bunch of other shit, too.  If that sort of thing scares some people, they should probably wear a hat.

[Don Coyote]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

"Sure we murdered over a million Armenians, but we left a few thousand alive so what's the problem? Genocide? What? Nah, we can't be responsible for the actions of our army."

It's a pretty bullshit semantic distinction if you ask me.

Well, they're saying "The Ottomans killed many Armenians involved in an uprising during a conflict with another country. However, it was limited to the areas involved in the uprising, it was not an intentional attempt to annihilate a race and it wasn't premeditated. Also it was done by the folks we kicked out power."

As for the word, I dunno... the Turks feel that if they call it genocide, then they'll be equated with Nazis. The Armenians feel that nothing short of saying 'genocide' will do.

I sure as hell don't know the facts, I only know the views of the people I've read which tend to disagree a lot often citing the same sources. I am not trying to claim that there was no genocide, or that there was a genocide... based on what I've read, I think its fair to say that the issue is unclear and probably it was unfair of the RU to make it a part of the Turkish entry into the group (though most turks are now very happy they aren't in the EU).

The situation in 2005, the original point, is also pretty interesting. The military had taken control and they were the ones enforcing the laws. Since then the President has removed their control and that's one reason Pamuks books are back on the shelves. It's a great example of abusing limits to free speech, but we can point to some equally damaging abuses of unlimited speech.

As for the heavy duty guns... I dunno. I am all for personal protection, I dunno if a Uzi is necessary though (Well maybe in LA )

I don't think I'll ever come to believe that limited free speech is better... but I did think it was worth discussing.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm ok with people owning weapons, but I don't really see any purpose to owning an Uzi.

They're fun.

Firing fully automatic weapons is a fucking blast. The bigger it is, more fucking awesome it is.

Also, food for thought: Twid, why own a guitar?

Apples and oranges. I don't have the soloing skills to kill a man where he stands with one yet. 

Not the point. You are not a full time musician. Your livelihood does not rely on an instrument. It is an extraneous frippery. You own it because you like making music. Or because it is fun. Yes?
Which is my point. You don't need to prove a reason why you should have a guitar, despite it not being guaranteed in our Constitution. Why then should we have to provide a reason to own a weapon, especially considering such a right IS guaranteed by the Constitution.

Well, it kinda is the point. Guns are lethal weapons. I'd like to see less shootings in the paper.