Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

[Junkenstein]

Gingrich responded to Obama's remarks during a "Hannity Radio" interview:

What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It's not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background.
Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn't look like him. That's just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot. It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he'd been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American, it is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.

I suspect this guy did not get the memo saying that white people still aren't allowed to say "get over it" about slavery and such. I also suspect that ethnic minorities are not the demographic he is very concerned about reaching. Ironically this tends to lead to further divides, the opposite of the apparent stated goal.

It certainly seems racially motivated. The victim lived there and given the shooter's neighbourhood watch antics, are we suggesting he did not know who lived in the place he was watching?

And could someone please explain this "stand your ground" law because I am struggling to fathom it. It sounds and seems like some kind of old-wild-west-never-repealed-thing?

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Stand your ground is a newer law pushed forward by NRA types. The intention is to allow people who are assaulted the legal protection to actually deal with the problem at hand instead of obligating them to retreat. Personally, I don't know enough about the nuance of the law to understand what situations are covered by stand your ground that aren't covered by the normal self defense rules (other than the kinds of things that shouldn't be legal in the first place).

[Junkenstein]

Thanks. I have bizzare moments where I struggle to understand how it's an acceptable force response to shoot an unarmed person.

Given the association with NRA types, would the implication be that because the assailant is armed he assumes the victim/everyone else is? Reading back through the thread it sounds like he knew the exact law to spout right away. That leads me to think he's either well educated on gun law or was being prepared for possibly being caught. Probably both?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And the Persecuted Rich Honky Faction weighs in.

Oh, my god. Talk about epic "not getting it". The President's statement was intended to counter the dehumanizing effect of racism on white people toward "black kids"... that statement was meant to evoke empathy and understanding in people who may not have personalized Trayvon until they saw a man who is in a position of great influence saying something directly evocative like that.

For a lot of people, it's abstract until it's humanized to that degree... in my class when we were discussing it, I got choked up when I said it scares me because I have a son... Trayvon was only a few years older than my son. Some of the people in my class, you could see a switch flip over when it went from "black teenager" in their heads to "a beloved young son". It makes it real.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I hear a lot of white people saying things like "There's a black man at the door" when "There's a man at the door" would suffice. I don't like it, there's a "not like us" subtext even if they don't consciously mean anything by it. A lot of fucked up thinking seems to be just ground into people and they don't realize it.

[Juana]

That Gingrich called Trayvon an "it" bothers me intensely.

I hear a lot of white people saying things like "There's a black man at the door" when "There's a man at the door" would suffice. I don't like it, there's a "not like us" subtext even if they don't consciously mean anything by it. A lot of fucked up thinking seems to be just ground into people and they don't realize it.

It takes a lot of self-reflection to realize that sort of thing. Most people aren't very good at that or even willing to try.

[Junkenstein]

That Gingrich called Trayvon an "it" bothers me intensely.

I hear a lot of white people saying things like "There's a black man at the door" when "There's a man at the door" would suffice. I don't like it, there's a "not like us" subtext even if they don't consciously mean anything by it. A lot of fucked up thinking seems to be just ground into people and they don't realize it.

It takes a lot of self-reflection to realize that sort of thing. Most people aren't very good at that or even willing to try.

Slightly off-topic, but this particular corner of Hades, UK I've felt like there's been a growing acceptance of casual racism building for quite a few years. It tends to get a veneer of "workplace taking the piss", but the frequency in which I encounter it is disturbing. It'd be almost funny if it wasn't invariably serious and later  involved a variation of XXX are stealing our jobs.

Eventually people may realise that the problem is any ethnic group, the problem is fucking idiots. They're everywhere. And practically everyone.

There's a book in there. "Everyone is a fucking Idiot. Volume #1/Infinity"

[Juana]

Yeah, I'm seeing that here a little, too.

Also, apparently the new Black Panther party is offering a $10k bounty for the capture of Zimmerman.

[Doktor Howl]

That Gingrich called Trayvon an "it" bothers me intensely.

HELLO.

"REPUBLICAN".

[Juana]

STILL!

[Doktor Howl]

STILL!

You're so 2006.   

[Luna]

Now THIS is interesting...

http://wtvr.com/2012/03/24/zimmermans-lawyer-stand-your-ground-doesnt-apply-in-trayvon-martin-case/

Zimmerman's lawyer is setting up to defend his scumbag under straight up self defense, not trying to rely on the stand your ground law.

Apparently, they're going to try to argue that a 140 pound kid armed with Skittles and iced tea jumped a 240 pound man who was chasing him down...  Nevermind the fact that the kid was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time, and there are 911 calls from the neighbors where you can hear the kid begging for his life...

Makes me ill.

[Cain]

Even if he did jump him and attack first, as this eyewitness is saying, it shouldn't matter.

He was being followed in public by an armed, threatening, adult man.  If he struck first, it was because Trayvon Martin was exercising his right to self-defense.

Of course, I don't expect a court, nor the gaggles of wingnuts currently carrying water for Zimmerman to see it that way, but any normal person would probably concede in the case that Martin did attack first, he was justifiably concerned about his safety, and that Zimmerman shot him after being told to withdraw by the police and confronting him cannot be considered justifiable in any way.

[Luna]

Even if he did jump him and attack first, as this eyewitness is saying, it shouldn't matter.

He was being followed in public by an armed, threatening, adult man.  If he struck first, it was because Trayvon Martin was exercising his right to self-defense.

Of course, I don't expect a court, nor the gaggles of wingnuts currently carrying water for Zimmerman to see it that way, but any normal person would probably concede in the case that Martin did attack first, he was justifiably concerned about his safety, and that Zimmerman shot him after being told to withdraw by the police and confronting him cannot be considered justifiable in any way.

Eyewitness?  This is just Zimmerman's story, I am unaware of any eyewitnesses... though, apparently, Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend at the beginning of the confrontation. 

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."
After that, the line went dead, she said. According to ABC News, other than screams on 911 calls as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words Martin said.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10774247-trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

[Cain]

An eyewitness is claiming that he saw Trayvon attack Zimmerman:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/witness_supports_self_defense_story_hJ7s3EBd9LtYlZaE41WzFP

An alleged eyewitness is backing the 28-year-old gunman at the center of a national firestorm.

A person named "John" told a Fox affiliate in Orlando that he saw an altercation unfold between George Zimmerman and 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, whom he shot and killed on Feb. 26.

Police said Zimmerman called 911 and described Martin as "suspicious." The two scuffled, and Trayvon wound up dead from a single bullet from Zimmerman's licensed 9mm semiautomatic, authorities say.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help, help.' I told him to stop, I was calling 911," John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was laying in the grass. And I believe he was dead at that point," the eyewitness claimed.