Author Topic: Any relevance for religion?  (Read 19767 times)

LMNO

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #150 on: March 21, 2012, 11:50:21 am »
Just trying to rephrase here...

"For most people, an unfounded belief in a somewhat sentient force beyond the mundane universe seems to be, if not necessary, at least perferred."

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #151 on: March 21, 2012, 09:29:14 pm »
"For most people, an unfounded belief in a somewhat sentient force beyond the mundane universe seems to be, if not necessary, at least perferred."

I would rephrase the italicized to "some entity, information, or experience", although I think I may be conflating "spirituality" with "religion" for purposes of this argument.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #152 on: March 22, 2012, 11:59:49 am »
An unfounded belief of an experience?  What does that even mean?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #153 on: March 22, 2012, 12:07:51 pm »
You have an experience but your interpretation of what it was is a belief. For example- alien abduction. Somethings going on there but unless we can figure out how interstellar travel is possible its an unfounded belief and more likely some bizarre but undiscovered brain thing.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #154 on: March 22, 2012, 12:12:18 pm »
And you don't think "unfounded belief in aliens" fits better into "unfounded belief in a somewhat sentient force" than "unfounded belief in an experience"?

The unfounded belief they have is the interpretation of the experience, not the experience itself.  The aliens are believed to be a sentient force.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #155 on: March 22, 2012, 12:17:28 pm »
Well sure but its also an example about a belief about an experience- and the only one i could think of while groggy. Hows this then. When someone dreams  they are travelling to other dimensions because of brain quantums. Takes external sentient beings out of it.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #156 on: March 22, 2012, 12:21:11 pm »
More succinctly- astral travel and other obe's, past life memories, etc. Like is said- i have an afterlife model which i consider independent from theology. I have no experiences to base that on but some do.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #157 on: March 22, 2012, 12:58:44 pm »
More succinctly- astral travel and other obe's, past life memories, etc. Like is said- i have an afterlife model which i consider independent from theology. I have no experiences to base that on but some do.

You know, if I said that they would be queuing round the block to rip me a new one. How do you manage to get away with it Twid? Is it that infamous Irish charm?  :wink:
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #158 on: March 22, 2012, 01:06:06 pm »
I assumed he was speaking hypothetically. 

However, it does seem that Twid's post does deserve a LOLWAT.

Srsly?  Astral travel and reincarnation?  And you say it's divorced from any kind of belief in a superstructure outside the universe?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #159 on: March 22, 2012, 01:09:07 pm »
:lol: i dunno which bit are you refering to? Im willing to entertain that something is happening to someone who perceives themselves being out of their body but im not going to make a leap and say "that must be exactly whats happening"
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #160 on: March 22, 2012, 01:17:10 pm »
Well some buddhists are atheists. Do they still believe in reincarnation? I dont see why the concept of a human soul necessitates some sort of external deitys influence. Sure i suppose you still have to figure out where souls come from but does that require gods?
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #161 on: March 22, 2012, 01:17:30 pm »
:lol: i dunno which bit are you refering to? Im willing to entertain that something is happening to someone who perceives themselves being out of their body but im not going to make a leap and say "that must be exactly whats happening"

Notice I didn't mention OBE.  You're the one who jumped to Asstrails and past life memories.  Thetan much?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #162 on: March 22, 2012, 01:18:44 pm »
But yes i am attempting to describe how you can have a belief about an experience.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #163 on: March 22, 2012, 01:22:50 pm »
Well some buddhists are atheists. Do they still believe in reincarnation? I dont see why the concept of a human soul necessitates some sort of external deitys influence. Sure i suppose you still have to figure out where souls come from but does that require gods?

That depends on blind reincarnation vs karmic -- and you opened the second can of worms yourself by mentioning "soul".

But first off, are there really Buddhists who think that subsequent reincarnations are not karmically based?  That their next incarnation will be at random?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #164 on: March 22, 2012, 01:24:51 pm »
Sure- people believe they can leave their bodies or experience past lives or whatever. I cant really say whats going on with that. The fact that it happens suggests some sort of experience is occuring in the brain. Trying to say what it is other than "this person is perceiving something odd" makes a belief out of it. I seem to be expressing myself poorly but im not really making any leaps here and ive stated before ('aybe not in this thread) that my belief in an afterlife is necessary for me not to get cripplingly depressed about my eventual death. I recognize that it may not be true but dwelling on that isnt good for me.
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