Bad Guys in White Hats, part I of V

[Doktor Howl]

The funny thing about being the good guy is that you have to be "good" to qualify.  If you do bad things in a good cause, you are no longer the good guy.  If you cheer for people doing bad things for a good cause, you are also no longer a good guy.  As the man said, "The ends do not justify the means", and we used to hang people that behaved otherwise when they went too far (WWII comes to mind), or tried to excuse their behavior with "I was only following orders".

Thing is, once you violate your principles, it becomes easier and easier to do.  Precedent takes away the stigma of the bad acts, and they become normal...No matter how disgusting they may have appeared originally.  Torture is one example, and also one that illustrates a coping mechanism people use to justify their actions; they change the name of the act, as if that somehow changes the morality of the act.  Phrases like "enhanced interrogation" and "extraordinary rendition" come to mind.

It all happens in little steps, or sometimes in larger steps, when the public gets scared enough to allow it.  Then, one day, you turn back and see that the light is dim and far, far back the way you came.

A nation that does evil things is by definition an evil nation.  Not many people will argue if you refer to North Korea or China as evil nations...But they are far less likely to listen if you mention America, as they still think America is the good guy, driven to hard practices by "necessity".  But a nation that tortures people; that holds people indefinitely without trial, that spends all its time spying on its own citizen and trying to justify removing the rights of most of its population in favor of a select minority; that attacks nations that did it no wrong...That is pretty much a working definition of an evil nation.

But it's never too late to change.  It's never too late for redemption.  The tunnel we've been galloping down isn't an irreversible slide, if we but have the strength as a people to change our ways.  That doesn't mean we vote for someone different; the problem isn't the government, it isn't the GOP or the democrats, the problem is We The People.  We have to get away from the fallacies that A) SOMEONE is running things (nobody actually is), and that one party or the other is responsible for our behavior (they both are, of course, but who elected them?).

It's time to sack up and take responsibility for our collective actions.  More to the point, it's time to STOP those actions that qualify us for "evil nation" status.  It's time to run the country again, instead of abdicating our responsibilities to banksters and professional liars.

Okay for now,
Dok

To Be Continued.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm going to have to chew on this a bit more, but I'm looking forward to the next four.

[Phox]

Dok, you are absolutely correct, here, but let me try to build on this.

When a nation is responsible for torture, political assassinations, destabilizing governments, failure to uphold human rights, unfair judicial practice, or a myriad of other breaches of social contract, we call that nation evil. This is the U.S., for sure. Specific examples can be cited in recent history, with full documentation.

However, has there ever been a nation that was truly free of these sorts of actions? Can there ever be a "good" nation?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but we can't really know unless someone actually makes an effort at building a nation that does not. You can't say that something is "necessary" if no one's ever tried going without it. I'm no expert, and I can't say if it's even viable. But what's worse? Passively becoming evil, or failing at trying to stop it?

[Doktor Howl]

However, has there ever been a nation that was truly free of these sorts of actions? Can there ever be a "good" nation?

That depends.  Are we insisting on perfection, or a nation that constantly tries to better itself and its citizens?

America from 1860 to 2000 was never what you'd call a "good" nation, but what it WAS, was a nation that constantly improved.  Labor practices, racial relations, our relationships with other nations...Grim as our history is, there is a common thread throughout it, of painfully climbing out of its own ignorance and beastial behavior.  There were setbacks along the way, but the overall trend was upwards.

In the last 12 years, that trend has reversed.  We have not only done evil things, we have voted to support those evil things openly. 

That has to be fixed.

[Phox]

However, has there ever been a nation that was truly free of these sorts of actions? Can there ever be a "good" nation?

That depends.  Are we insisting on perfection, or a nation that constantly tries to better itself and its citizens?

America from 1860 to 2000 was never what you'd call a "good" nation, but what it WAS, was a nation that constantly improved.  Labor practices, racial relations, our relationships with other nations...Grim as our history is, there is a common thread throughout it, of painfully climbing out of its own ignorance and beastial behavior.  There were setbacks along the way, but the overall trend was upwards.

In the last 12 years, that trend has reversed.  We have not only done evil things, we have voted to support those evil things openly. 

That has to be fixed.

Yes, perfection in this area, is certainly beyond hope. I agree that constant improvement, especially in social and diplomatic areas, is the measure of nation, surely. We have the power to turn it around, andd yet, as yuo have said, we keep voting in support of these practices that are in the complete wrong direction. We gotta do something about it, and it ain't bein' apathetic, that's for damn sure.

[Doktor Howl]

Getting some interesting responses to this on CG.   

[Doktor Howl]

http://www.capitolgrilling.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=704849&page=1#Post704849

[Phox]

Oh, I sometimes wish I could sign up over there. 

[Doktor Howl]

The lefties are freaking the fuck out.  Or at least one of them is, anyway.   

The right-wingers are appealing to fear, as predicted.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

That zb guy is kind of an idiot no?

[Doktor Howl]

That zb guy is kind of an idiot no?

Only when you question the democratic party.

So...Yes.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

That zb guy is kind of an idiot no?

Only when you question the democratic party.

So...Yes.

THose types are just as bad as teabaggers. There is no possible way that they can be wrong, and if you point out how you're wrong, it's because you just don't get it do you?

[Doktor Howl]

That zb guy is kind of an idiot no?

Only when you question the democratic party.

So...Yes.

THose types are just as bad as teabaggers. There is no possible way that they can be wrong, and if you point out how you're wrong, it's because you just don't get it do you?

Pretty much.  The first response he made stated that I was "mentally challenged", because I pointed out that the dems have not been much different than the GOP.  He's wearing a uniform, and it's buttoned so tight that it's cutting off the blood flow to his brain.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Jesus, Dok, how do you stomach that place?

[Doktor Howl]

Jesus, Dok, how do you stomach that place?

For SCIENCE!