Claiming Immunity

[P3nT4gR4m]

There are rules and regulations in all walks of life, from "Walk/Don't Walk" right on up to "Thou shalt not kill"

From the day you're born these laws are impressed on you

From the day they're born most accept them as immutable

Like laws of physics, like forces of nature

"Please form an orderly queue"

"Thou shalt not steal"

"Thou shalt not question the lawmakers"

Some of us, however, do question the lawmakers

and we question the laws

"thou shalt not bear false witness"

and we find the laws wanting

and the lawmakers nefarious

and their rules merely options

and the consequences of dissent avoidable

and we see guilt for what it is - pre-programmed fear and self loathing

the condemnation of lesser men

and we rise above

and the ones who do not - the servile majority

look at us as if we have no morals or conscience

and we look at them with pity

as if they have no minds

[Doktor Howl]

I gotta say, I'm okay with rules like "thou shalt not kill" and "don't steal peoples' stuff".  If I wanted to live in a society that didn't have these rules, I'd move to Somalia.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm not okay with having rules about not killing and not stealing. You shouldn't need rules to cover crap like that, just like you shouldn't have rules like "Thou shalt breathe" and "thou shalt eat food"

The fact that we need these rules is a pretty damning indictment of our "civilisation" from where I'm standing

[Doktor Howl]

I'm not okay with having rules about not killing and not stealing. You shouldn't need rules to cover crap like that, just like you shouldn't have rules like "Thou shalt breathe" and "thou shalt eat food"

The fact that we need these rules is a pretty damning indictment of our "civilisation" from where I'm standing

Actually, it says nothing more than the well known fact that people turn into fucking savages if they don't think they'll be punished for it.  On account of being barely-domesticated primates.

And while I agree that most of the laws are really just there to keep people in line socially, there is in fact (and will ALWAYS) be a need for rules against killing and stealing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Those rules always exist, it's just a matter of how formally codified they are.

Do your neighbors lynch you, or has society organized a government with specialists who determine your degree of guilt and the nature of your punishment?

[Doktor Howl]

Those rules always exist, it's just a matter of how formally codified they are.

Do your neighbors lynch you, or has society organized a government with specialists who determine your degree of guilt and the nature of your punishment?

We have to cut out the middleman.  Government is inherently evil, so we should return to lynchings.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm not okay with having rules about not killing and not stealing. You shouldn't need rules to cover crap like that, just like you shouldn't have rules like "Thou shalt breathe" and "thou shalt eat food"

The fact that we need these rules is a pretty damning indictment of our "civilisation" from where I'm standing

Actually, it says nothing more than the well known fact that people turn into fucking savages if they don't think they'll be punished for it.  On account of being barely-domesticated primates.

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

We've come a long way as a species. Lotta really cool shit going on now but all the shit that's just poorly abstracted monkey behaviour, right down to the way primates are running countries and fixing rules and regulations and controlling armies and resources and shit? That shit would fucking bug me if I ever found myself unable to avoid getting caught up in it.

[Freeky]

If laws didn't exist, there would have been no reason for people to care whether or not they killed, or stole, or had sex with children even.

[Doktor Howl]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

[Freeky]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

That's silly, optimistic to the point of rightwing nutjobbery crazy, and totally hopeless.

If there hadn't been any laws banning this shit, there would never have been social progress.  You can tell by the way people now a days keep trying to circumvent laws so we can go back to the way things used to be, when women and people with smudgy skin knew their place (pregnant in the kitchen and out in the fields, respectively) and poor people got what they deserved (no minimum wage or standard of working conditions and so on).

[Doktor Howl]

That shit would fucking bug me if I ever found myself unable to avoid getting caught up in it.

I wish we could ALL be Musashi.

[Doktor Howl]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

That's silly, optimistic to the point of rightwing nutjobbery crazy, and totally hopeless.

If there hadn't been any laws banning this shit, there would never have been social progress.  You can tell by the way people now a days keep trying to circumvent laws so we can go back to the way things used to be, when women and people with smudgy skin knew their place (pregnant in the kitchen and out in the fields, respectively) and poor people got what they deserved (no minimum wage or standard of working conditions and so on).

But some people don't do that, so we should abolish all law.

[P3nT4gR4m]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

Heh! Exactly. That's what I hate. Not the monkeys themselves, they're just biological machines that haven't quite figured out how to work themselves. I hate the fact that they're like that. The fact itself is the target of my hatred. I have optimism it might not always be a fact, at some point in the future it'll just die but I'm pessimistic about seeing it in my lifetime.

[Doktor Howl]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

Heh! Exactly. That's what I hate. Not the monkeys themselves, they're just biological machines that haven't quite figured out how to work themselves. I hate the fact that they're like that. The fact itself is the target of my hatred. I have optimism it might not always be a fact, at some point in the future it'll just die but I'm pessimistic about seeing it in my lifetime.

Boy, it's a good thing that we're better than those filthy monkeys, and aren't ourselves running around in one uniform or another.

[Freeky]

This is the bit that annoys me. Some primates realise this and do their best to leash in the monkey and function like some kind of more intelligent thing, that walks on it's back legs all the time. It's possible to take control of the punishment reward mechanisms and rise above the whole hooting and flinging shit thing.

So we should assume that everyone does?

Heh! Exactly. That's what I hate. Not the monkeys themselves, they're just biological machines that haven't quite figured out how to work themselves. I hate the fact that they're like that. The fact itself is the target of my hatred. I have optimism it might not always be a fact, at some point in the future it'll just die but I'm pessimistic about seeing it in my lifetime.

Boy, it's a good thing that we're better than those filthy monkeys, and aren't ourselves running around in one uniform or another.

-jaded snort-