Author Topic: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement  (Read 31884 times)

Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2012, 12:31:13 am »
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

I think that might be some of what Campbell was talking about, as far as people not knowing what's expected anymore (or in this case, using an anachronism as an excuse to be a fuckwad). At one time it would have been understood that things like that were the woman's job, but that was only because she generally wasn't working outside the home.

Hell, if some guy was paying all my bills and generally treating me decent, stuff like that would be no problem (unless we had thirteen kids or some shit like that, aiiiii..). It just doesn't happen that much anymore. Never mind feminism and the ERA, the economy doesn't permit it. 



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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2012, 12:39:23 am »
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

Don't think he ever forgave me for disabusing him of THAT particular notion.  Fuckhead.
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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2012, 12:54:18 am »
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

:lulz:

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Don't think he ever forgave me for disabusing him of THAT particular notion.  Fuckhead.

Thing is I have to suspect that he learned that behavior from probably the male figures in his life while growing up.  To me, this is the sort of thing that men need to move away from.  It's almost like we need to redefine the role while incorporating the new values and the economy (thanks Anna Mae) of today.

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2012, 04:33:24 am »
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2012, 04:56:23 am »
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...


Well yes, I get why--just that this idea of withholding emotion has maintained to this day in ways that don't really jive with what makes a healthy human being.  If it happened to me, I'm sure I'd fucking flinch...I'd flinch the fuck out...but that doesn't necessarily make me less of a man.

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2012, 05:06:29 am »
if you say so, man.

(i kid. i kid.)

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2012, 05:54:42 am »
Make a distinction between
Being strong enough that pain does not affect who you are at your core
and
Not being able to express your feelings fully & genuinely
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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2012, 07:29:04 am »
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.
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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2012, 07:54:40 am »
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...
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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2012, 12:49:05 pm »
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...


Well yes, I get why--just that this idea of withholding emotion has maintained to this day in ways that don't really jive with what makes a healthy human being.  If it happened to me, I'm sure I'd fucking flinch...I'd flinch the fuck out...but that doesn't necessarily make me less of a man.

If you flinched sufficiently far enough, it would make you less of a man (castration lol).

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2012, 12:52:58 pm »
Also it seems to me that Bly's theory can be summed up as "there is a global feminist conspiracy to sap and depurify our precious bodily fluids".

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2012, 01:18:35 pm »
Sorry, that should read "feminism and industrial society".

No doubt he also thinks we live in an age of "post-heroic war" and such.  That's not so much Carl Jung as it is Ernst Junger.

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2012, 01:58:52 pm »
I'm sorry, but a lot of this smells like the "men's rights" movement. And, uh, fuck that. "Oh noes! Male men are not being required to stick to traditional gender roles for 'men'! This is some how damaging to my own manliness!"

It's more a primitivist thing than a reaction to feminism.  The world has become too complicated, you see, and these guys want to go back to banging on drums to pretend that it's not as complicated.  They don't want to go back to the days before the benefits of those complications (indoor plumbing, pennicillin, etc), they just want to spend a day or two playing make-believe.

They know something is wrong with their culture, but they don't know precisely what it is.  So, instead of examining the culture and looking for solutions, they run and hide behind faux-primitive rituals.



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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #88 on: May 31, 2012, 02:00:30 pm »
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...

Imagine a world full of TGRR.  Nothing is hidden.  Everything is bellowed at a volume that assists the conveyance of my current mood. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

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Re: Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2012, 09:16:43 pm »
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...

Imagine a world full of TGRR.  Nothing is hidden.  Everything is bellowed at a volume that assists the conveyance of my current mood.

... are you trying to make the overweight, sock tan, cubicle dweller banging on a bongo sound relatively pleasant?
 :p