Author Topic: Chasing Eris  (Read 101807 times)

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #495 on: November 22, 2013, 03:40:34 am »
The thing is... nobody said you didn't have control of your project. 

What they said was that if Loveshade was involved, they didn't want to be.  And you read that as them trying to control your work, which from my stance looks like you viewing their words through a sort of strange prism.  You should look at that, and be honest with yourself.  You may not like what you find.
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #496 on: November 22, 2013, 04:43:31 am »
The thing is... nobody said you didn't have control of your project. 

What they said was that if Loveshade was involved, they didn't want to be.  And you read that as them trying to control your work, which from my stance looks like you viewing their words through a sort of strange prism.  You should look at that, and be honest with yourself.  You may not like what you find.

Stop being so reasonable!
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #497 on: November 22, 2013, 08:58:05 am »
The thing is... nobody said you didn't have control of your project.  

What they said was that if Loveshade was involved, they didn't want to be.  And you read that as them trying to control your work, which from my stance looks like you viewing their words through a sort of strange prism.  You should look at that, and be honest with yourself.  You may not like what you find.

Thanks for your input, and I appreciate the helpful tone.

Honestly, I have no idea how to say the same thing in a different way to be understood at this point but I will try to be particularly clear in this post.

I agree with everything you said, other that the idea that I interpreted people as trying to have control of my work. Where people have set the condition that they will be in or out based on Loveshade or anyone else's involvement, I don't feel I can work with that, and think I'm better off without the interview in the first place.

I have said a number of times that if I was to agree to these kinds of interviews I would feel that I did not have full control over my work. From where I stand, this isn't obviously conflated with me saying that 'other people are trying to control my work' but despite me explicityly and repeatedly making the point that that is not my point of view, that's how it seems many here are more comfortable interpreting me.

My being here now isn't to pursue some agenda based on feeling hurt and angry that I have somehow been mortally wronged by mean old PD but because I want to take a chance to correct some errors that are being made (that I'm part of some kind of Loveshadian conspiracy, that I regard Loveshade or anyone else as more important than the rest, that I believe in a PD conspiracy against my project or anything else, so on)

To be perfectly, painfully, glaringly clear; I do NOT and never have taken the position that everyone else is trying to control my work. I DO take the position that had I agreed to do interviews that would leave me unable to choose for myself what content I did or did not include (meaning if using the interview meant I had to promise not to involve Loveshade or any other figure or otherwise impose conditions on what I wrote) that I would not feel I had full control over what I was writing. But my feeling of having full control is something that I have made choices to retain, and I regard that as my choice that I have made and am comfortable with, not as a reaction to some kind of evil power grab from this forum which seems to be how a lot of folk are choosing to interpret my attitude.

To reiterate: it is not, and has never been my opinion that anyone is trying to control my project.
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #498 on: November 22, 2013, 09:15:39 am »
For someone whose position isn't "people are trying to control my work" you sure are saying those exact words a whole lot.

Coincidence? I think not.

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #499 on: November 22, 2013, 02:12:36 pm »
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this.  So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.

Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.


Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #500 on: November 22, 2013, 02:19:26 pm »
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this.  So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.

Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.


Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?

It seems to me that the book was intended to capture "classic" Discordianism.

No slam on Swabey or anyone.  There's still something to be said for that approach.  But I think that trying to shove everyone in the book would be like asking Martin Luther if he minded if the Vatican would be involved.

So a choice had to be made.  For some reason, the choice made was "Loveshade uber alles".
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #501 on: November 22, 2013, 02:22:01 pm »
To be perfectly, painfully, glaringly clear; I do NOT and never have taken the position that everyone else is trying to control my work. I DO take the position that had I agreed to do interviews that would leave me unable to choose for myself what content I did or did not include (meaning if using the interview meant I had to promise not to involve Loveshade or any other figure or otherwise impose conditions on what I wrote) that I would not feel I had full control over what I was writing.

That's FINE. You could and DID choose who you were going to write about.

But people refusing to participate because you involved some David Koresh knockoff is NOT trying to "control your work", it's just refusal to participate.  Which is something YOU can't and shouldn't be able to control.
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- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #502 on: November 22, 2013, 02:33:21 pm »
And you also can't control how much some of us resented your choice of who you wanted to include.

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #503 on: November 22, 2013, 03:38:24 pm »
Personally, I think the reason this kind of upsets me is because I was very interested in this project, and really would have liked to participate; and I don't think I'm alone in this.  So the insistence to include Loveshade, who (if nothing else) is simply another in a long line of Pinealists and plagarists (and there is plenty else), is at the expense of a group of Discordians who, as far as I can tell, have created a surprisingly new branch of Discordia, mostly out of whole cloth.

Thus, the decision to include one person deprives the work of an entire movement.


Sure, that sounds big-headed and pretentious; but in your travels, have you found any Discordians like the ones at PD.com?

Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.

In one regard yes I have met people like those of PDcom, mainly because I interviewed 8 people that I met for the first time on PD who are or have been active contributors.

But in a less literal sense, assuming that you are talking about people who have taken 'standard' Discordianism and built something new and innovative out of it, yes i have met many people like that also.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #504 on: November 22, 2013, 03:41:02 pm »
And you also can't control how much some of us resented your choice of who you wanted to include.

Yep.

There's definitely that.
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #505 on: November 22, 2013, 03:41:24 pm »
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.

And the choice you made was to include him.  So, semantics.  The end result is the same. 

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #506 on: November 22, 2013, 03:41:57 pm »
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.

Revisionism.

You said "No discussion about Discordianism would be complete without Loveshade."
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #507 on: November 22, 2013, 03:42:52 pm »
Firstly. I did not and do not insist on including Loveshade. I insist on being the one to make that choice.

And the choice you made was to include him.  So, semantics.  The end result is the same.

It felt good to rate somewhere below a pedo/plagiarist.
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- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #508 on: November 22, 2013, 03:50:19 pm »
Indeed.

Dingo, since we're playing with semantics here, I rewrote the above quote, and came up with:

"I insist on being the one choosing to include Loveshade."

And trust me, no one's going to take that from you.  Because no one wants to.

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Re: Chasing Eris
« Reply #509 on: November 22, 2013, 03:51:04 pm »
I am not creating a Public Relations document to promote Discordia. I am endevoring to take a snapshot of Discordia as it manifests today. This means showing all aspects.

Which, boiled down, means "the creepy bits as most important".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.