News:

PD.com: We're like the bugs in the Starship Troopers movie: infinite, unceasing, unstoppable....and our leader looks like a huge vagina

Main Menu

Chasing Eris

Started by Placid Dingo, June 29, 2012, 11:52:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Placid Dingo

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:56:04 PM
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?

I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.

So, you're "stewarding your reputation", ala Ben Mack?

I'm answering questions.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

Placid Dingo

LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance. I was excited about your interview and disappointed that it didn't eventuate.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 22, 2013, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 04:56:04 PM
Nigel's Question. Why are you even still here talking about that to a bunch of people who didn't participate and don't matter with regards to your project as it panned out?

I said before, because I spoke up to correct some inaccuracies, that I would butt out unless people wanted to ask questions or if there was something too inaccurate to ignore. That's what I'm here for.

So, you're "stewarding your reputation", ala Ben Mack?

I'm answering questions.

So, "yes".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 06:41:55 PM
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance. I was excited about your interview and disappointed that it didn't eventuate.

You should run for office.  Or get a job in HR.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 06:41:55 PM
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance.

Sure you are.  That's what a choice is.  Your choice, the one you hold so dear, is about evaluating the consequences, and then selecting the option that maximizes your goal.  The option that maximizes your goal is the more important option.

So, you are presenting yourself as someone who feels Uncle BadTouch's contribution to Discordia is more important than ours.


It's odd I have to explain this to you.

The Good Reverend Roger

I understand that the choice was handed to Placid Dingo, and I myself am not very good with ultimatums (I almost always immediately choose against the person issuing them), but in this case, well...

...It's like someone saying "We're interviewing people to talk about raising children.  We'd like to speak with you, Mr Rogers, Leo Buscalia, and, um, John Wayne Gacy.  Are you okay with that?"

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 01:40:05 AM
A: Well, not so, but all I mean by relevant, if that was my term, is that Uncle BadTouch is well known within Discordia online, through his websites mostly and his book, and his various conflicts with other members of the community.

So why mention him at all? If he's know primarily online through his sketchy websites, his sketchy book and his various conflicts with other Discordians over the fact that he's a sketchy fuck using Discordianism as a rationale for diddling... Um... How is that representative of Discordia at all? I mean, seriously, including him at all to begin with is a failure of the project. I do not consider Uncle BadTouch a Discordian of note. I do not consider him significant in the Discordian movement. Not any more so than say, I dunno, Number 6? Number 6 had a website and conflicts with other members of the community. Why not focus on Number 6? At least he didn't argue in favor of pedophilia.

Uncle BadTouch's about as significant to a discussion about what it means to be a Discordian as John Salvi is about what it means to be Catholic.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 02:27:24 AM
I actually didn't come back to reply but felt there was one more thing I wished to mention.

Paes talked about 'journalistic integrity.' Not sure if his word or mine but I guess where he's used that I just say honesty.

This was where my reasons for involving Uncle BadTouch were challenged and among other points, the point was made that it would be bad to associate Discordia with his ideas. My feeling here is that I disagree. Uncle BadTouch, who calls himself a Discordian has upset other Discordians by sharing ideas that have upset people for extremely valid reasons, and to be honest about that is to promote a culture of honesty and avoid embracing a culture of secrecy. This isn't me saying why I will discuss Uncle BadTouch becaue as I've mentioned those are choices that will come out of the editing process; but it is a reason why I do not accept the idea that his views are too terrible to be aknowledged honestly and critically.

It is 3-am. I sleep now. Please give me a little more leeway on this particular post, because my brain is slowing.

Too terrible?

I was thinking not too significant.

Look dude, I'm sorry, but Uncle BadTouch is not a quintessential Discordian thinker. He's just not. If he was, I probably wouldn't be a Discordian. I didn't even know who the fuck he was until Pope Tom told me over a beer.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 08:58:05 AM
that I regard Uncle BadTouch or anyone else as more important than the rest

You're on the right track here but don't go far enough.

Honestly the only time I think about Uncle BadTouch is when he's brought up. Uncle BadTouch is unimportant.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Placid Dingo on November 22, 2013, 06:41:55 PM
LMNO, all I can do is repeat that I'm not making judgments of importance. I was excited about your interview and disappointed that it didn't eventuate.

The fuck you aren't.

Isn't that the whole point of choosing, as the editor, which interviews make it into the book?

You did in fact make a judgment about Uncle BadTouch's importance, otherwise, you'd have been like, um, who?

I gotta be quite honest, if I were doing the same project and you had never thought of it, Uncle BadTouch would never have been on the list to begin with. And not because of his distasteful nature. Granted, that would have played into me not meeting with the guy if I ended up in his city to meet actual Discordians of note at all, but really man, Uncle BadTouch. Not a consideration. At all. By any stretch of the imagination. I really don't know why any part of you entertained the thought longer than going down a list and immediately rejecting him.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Placid Dingo

Blight.

Q: So why mention him at all?
And
How is that representative of Discordia at all?

A: Some people seem to think I had some kind of list of Discordians where I hand picked the ones who were the most 'important' or 'classic' or the 'best representatives'' or whatever. 

I don't. 

I wanted to take myself away from any preconceived ideas of what I thought Discordianism was or meant, and hear it through the eyes of Discordians. For that reason my only measure of 'worthiness' for the interviews I have done and continue to do was 'do they self-identify as Discordian?' If they did, and were willing to give me the time for an interview, I wanted to do the interview. Actually even so, some of my favourite interviews have been people who have not explicitly self identified as Discordian, so hopefully that gives an idea of the breadth of who I was speaking to. The only interview subjects who offered an interview that I declined were refused because they would result in my making completely insane travel decisions (LA to Austin via Dakota for example).

So as far as the second question goes, if something is 'representative' of Discordia or not, is not something I'm addressing, although I have said previously in addressing concerns that I will note that Uncle BadTouch's views have been disavowed by large parts of the Discordian community.

As for the first, why mention Uncle BadTouch, one answer is that he meets the above criteria. Another is that he was kind of wrapped up in the early part of the book's process.

As mentioned there were mails from a number of people I now believe are Uncle BadTouch. His name was mentioned by the two of my Brisbane interviews where there had been conflicts, and then while Adam never named him, it was made clear to me by him that I was being played for a fool by the "original Discordians" I was in contact with: considering that he had never heard of them. Embarrassingly I had also asked Louise Lacy if she knew any of these names too, and she had, of course, no recollection.

This was all, I think, before the forum erupted with drama about Uncle BadTouch. But after that I also heard him mentioned in a handful of quotes in interviews, mostly (entirely? I think) in reference to the controversy. And then of course the controversy itself. So as far as why would I mention him, part of the answer is that he's been part of the story quite beyond my decision to interview him.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

Placid Dingo

Blight 2.

Q: Isn't that the whole point of choosing, as the editor, which interviews make it into the book?

A: Of course I will be making value judgements about which interviews suit my work better.

Of course I'm making judgments about if I'm willing to negotiate editorial decisions (other than in relation to their own interview) with people I interview (I'm not).

When I say I'm not making value judgments I'm saying that I don't think any one person is more important or more likeable or more interesting than any another. I am making choices about how I put my book together and those choices never amount to a personal assessment of how much I value one individual over another. 

Choosing not to give others input over the editing process (other than to veto or correct details of their own interview) or choosing to use or not use one of the interviews is part of me trying to create something of interest. It is not me pointing to people and saying 'I like you less' or 'I think you don't matter.' I cannot stop anyone who insists on taking my choices as a judgment of their personal value, but I don't do that.
Haven't paid rent since 2014 with ONE WEIRD TRICK.

LMNO

All you're doing now is finding different ways to say I RETAIN CONTROL.


Which makes for really shitty literature.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I don't think it's about representing Discordia for him. It's just a power struggle, an ego trip.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Telarus

There are multiple PD spags already participating in this project, but I noticed none of them are talking about it here (including myself). That's interesting, but probably all I'm going to say of the matter.
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!