A curiosity about the South, for people who live here

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Dismissing the entire Confederate cause with something a starkly simple as racism and slavery is a mistake. Nit because the Confederates deserve any sympathy for their tactics or their justifications which were, mostly, bad; but because the rights they fought for were nevertheless rights we should have. That they grounded them in such moral depravity is tragic, because it is easy now for people to assume anyone who wants the Government to fuck off, or who thinks a town or a county or a state might know how to handle itself without any help from 2000 miles away, is backward and evil.

I agree with you.  So does Lysander Spooner.  And this, I think, was part & parcel with what I was trying to say.  After the civil war, the previously (somewhat) isolated North & South became more integrated with each other, to the detriment of both.

Wait... so... when I see an attempt to legislate a better society through laws that offend my sense of individuality, my reaction may be just as incorrect as someone else's instinctive dry-heaving at every sight of the Confederate flag? Fuck.

What?

The North overran the South. And the South infected the North. Until your comment, my understanding was a one-sided interpretation of history, namely that the North has demonized the South for 150 years. Conversely, the South has demonized the North, and part of my own filter is tinted by that -- which I had not detected until now.

Exactly. The Civil War was a bigger clusterfuck than most people are capable of dealing with rationally.

A lot of people who trace their ancestors find family members fighting on BOTH sides. And it was right here, not off across the ocean somewhere. How do you walk out of that thinking straight?

[Salty]

This thread is great (for the most part).

If your not just going to decimate your enemies, then you damn well better defend against their long term forays into your culture. If a lot of nasty ideas came from the south it's only the north's fault for not fighting harder against that.

In a lot of ways it also speaks to the wisdom of hiding in plain sight and slowly working your machinery into the gears, instead of throwing a wrench in there.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, I just learned something, which I guess is great.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Well, I just learned something, which I guess is great.

???

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, I just learned something, which I guess is great.

???

I learned, at the bottom of the last page, that it's fucking hopeless.  Ancient feuds never die, there's no actual communication, and the only response you'll get to finally managing to articulate your position will be some shit about ponies.

I know a hopeless case when I see one.  There is nothing further to be gained in this conversation.  I am beginning to doubt that there is anything further to be gained at all.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

The Civil War was one of the few things in American History that rose to the definition of a true Culture-maker. Aside from that, we have the Revolutionary War (or the "War for Independence," as they say to distinguish us from the Godless Commies), and we have Elvis. Even World War 2 was mostly a spectator sport for the general population. Vietnam was just the first sitcom with a terrible ending. The Civil Rights Movement was half struggle for recognition and equality, and half science experiment. Nothing has defined the spirit of America quite like the Civil War, even if most of us don't realize it anymore. And in a way that's what makes it Real Culture. The fact that it's been driven so deep inside our collective psyche that it doesn't matter who you are or what you think you know -- it's there, breeding contempt for somebody.

Every American alive today is a reincarnated Union or Confederate soldier, fighting for what they're fairly sure was a decent argument somebody made about something that must have been important. Willing to kill for it, and willing to say they're willing to die for it. And every day in America is Gettysburg. Bodies strewn all over a battlefield, as an endless line of fresh meet marches toward ground zero, where they'll be vaporized. A moment later, the dead man will be reborn as another sucker 500 miles away, who'll grow up and be taught that the highest thing he can aspire to is to march down to some terrible valley with a gun, and take down as many of the awful bastards as he can before he is stung by one of their bullets.

Nobody knows, really, what the fuck they're fighting for. But that's a fleeting detail. Even if they knew, even if they could be persuaded against their beliefs, they'd keep fighting out of sheer historical momentum. It isn't what you fight for that's important, it's that you fight. That's the American legacy, and it is our gift to the world.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Forgive me for posting something dumb instead of holding my breath until I had something more substantive to type out.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Forgive me for posting something dumb instead of holding my breath until I had something more substantive to type out.

S'okay.

It's what I'm here for.  Was here for.  There's nothing here to be here for.  Like the man said, gonna get a boat and sail away, ain't anyone gonna miss me anyway, 6 pack of beer and sail all day.

[Freeky]

That's bull and you know it.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Well, I just learned something, which I guess is great.

???

I learned, at the bottom of the last page, that it's fucking hopeless.  Ancient feuds never die, there's no actual communication, and the only response you'll get to finally managing to articulate your position will be some shit about ponies.

I know a hopeless case when I see one.  There is nothing further to be gained in this conversation.  I am beginning to doubt that there is anything further to be gained at all.

Kind of like a nation of Granny Clampetts who never got word that it's over???

Now I want a drink. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That's bull and you know it.

But it's not, Freeky.  Nigel and I discussed NBF last night, and she asked me to post links.  Today, she tells me she could have done that herself, and she doesn't want to talk about him.  V3x showed me where I stand.  ECH and EOT told me what I am.  RWHN, well, he's just RWHN.  I have been told that I am a bigot.  I have been told that I knee jerk.  I have been told that I am not intelligent enough to have a conversation.  I have been told, by damn near everyone, just what exactly I am.  Even LMNO isn't  talking to me.  Cain's already left in disgust, for very similar reasons.

There's nothing left at PD, at least for me, other than the traditional and ever-present CG-esque sniping for "points", and venting of ancient & rancid butthurt, with additional helpings of fresh, new butthurt.

What the hell am I doing here?  There is no good answer.

[Freeky]

I got nothing.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

What the hell am I doing here?  There is no good answer.

You're doing the same thing the rest of us are doing here. Waiting for the Apocalypse to happen. And since we're all gonna go down in a flaming blast anyway, we might as well get warmed up by spitting fire at each other.

[LMNO]

Whoa, whoa whoa.  I post when I can.  I even wrote a little something for the "land of the not quite dead" thread.


I just don't have much to contribute to this discussion.