A curiosity about the South, for people who live here

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Of course the south won. They were fighting for freedom, which is always the right thing to do - it was a moral victory.

Raw and stinking bullshit.  They were fighting for a static aristocracy.

They were fighting for the freedom to determine how to run their own economy and government. You can't really say that someone has the God-given right to pursue happiness, and then turn around and say "Well, but only if your method of pursuing happiness doesn't include human trafficking." These were honest, Christian farmers being faced with the possibility of being unable to leave their workforce to their children. Similarly, being forced allow illiterate non-citizens with no stake in the country to cast votes defeats the entire purpose of democracy - it's not self-determination if an outside power is manipulating the voting population to  its own ends.

It's not Freedom if you can't abuse it.

I'm leaving this thread now, out of sheer depression brought on by watching two supposed bipeds defend/support this sort of shit.

WHICH IS EXACTLY

          why you need to stay and this thread needs to happen. vex and ga are doing an outstanding job, imo, in bringing a voice of reason to this issue. the very fact that most immediate reaction to any of this underlines the idea that people from the south are not people, but some kind of sub human, demands this thread to exist. nigel brought it out in point, the issues connected to the south and the confederacy  are cloaked in so much womp that even incredibly intelligent folks have only frothing response to all of it. this is important dialogue.

I never said people from the South are subhuman.  They are all too human, and many of them carry an all-too infectious meme.  My personal (anecdotal, but that's all I have to work with) experience in the South has been universally shitty, with 90% of everyone I've met being at least partially billygoon.

OK,

          i never said that you said (like that?) people from the south are subhuman. i did say that "most immediate reaction" denoted thusly. i totally remember you phoning me while you were in texas with all this surprise about the back-assedness of it all, and all i could do was laugh, because i thought, "what the hell did you expect?"

HOWEVER,

          roger, calling someone "billygoon" isn't necessarily not calling them sub-human 

Okay, whatever.  Since you're going to put words in my mouth, there's no need for me to be in the conversation.

[E.O.T.]

I do find it interesting that Cain's description of the South's military strategy makes him a bigot of some kind.  So now we've reached "revisionist history is canon:  to argue implies racism".

          cain generalized a group of people and called them idiots. his insistence on bringing this discussion into some military tactics format is simply missing the point entirely, aside from that, i think the "revisionist history is canon: to argue implies racism" makes no sense to me. how is wanting to broaden others perspectives bad? what's this about "revisionist history"?

[E.O.T.]

The Southeastern Meme:

1.  "America is for 'real Americans'".  The definition of "real Americans" varies to a degree, but it typically means American born people with conservative Christian & jingoistic views.  Blacks and Hispanics may be excluded regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

2.  "Nuke the bastards."  The identity of the bastards may change from time to time, and "nuke" may be substituted with "invade", "bomb", or "starve 'em out".  Just because.

3.  "Women are only good for fucking and fucking up."  This is a fairly rare component of the meme, usually found in the Appalachias and Texas.  In other areas, it may simply be "women have their place; they should stay in it".

4.  "Support the Troops."  Nobody knows what the fuck this means.  It seems to have something to do with supporting wars regardless of motive and regardless of cost in cash or human lives.

5.  "Education < a punch in the face."  If you feel intimidated intellectually, beat the fucker up.

6.  "NASCAR = Patriotism".  No shit.

7.  "The South shall rise again." (Lost Cause)  IE, we were right to fight, and one day we'll do it again.

8.  "There's a difference between Black people and niggers".  Nuff said.

9.  "Any White woman who sleeps with or even associates with non-Whites is 'tainted'."  This is pretty much EVERYWHERE.

10.  "This is a Christian nation, so faggots should die."

There's probably some that I've forgotten, but those are the major points.

With the exception of the "South shall rise again" bit, that's the exact same as everywhere else in America. I am, however, enjoying the irony of watching people turn southerners into "Other" for the crime of, uhh, turning other people into "Other".

As I said, keeping the South was a mistake, as the bastards contaminated the rest of the country.

And as far as I'm concerned, all humans are "Other".  That's why I hang out with freaks.

ROGER,

          so we are to understand that all people from the south are bastards which contaminated the rest of the country? that's not bigoted. saying you hang out with "freaks" is not a get out of jail free card when you are insisting an entire culture of people are a contaminant. sure, that is also all people, but that's not what you are saying. what about blacks who live in the south?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The Southeastern Meme:

1.  "America is for 'real Americans'".  The definition of "real Americans" varies to a degree, but it typically means American born people with conservative Christian & jingoistic views.  Blacks and Hispanics may be excluded regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

2.  "Nuke the bastards."  The identity of the bastards may change from time to time, and "nuke" may be substituted with "invade", "bomb", or "starve 'em out".  Just because.

3.  "Women are only good for fucking and fucking up."  This is a fairly rare component of the meme, usually found in the Appalachias and Texas.  In other areas, it may simply be "women have their place; they should stay in it".

4.  "Support the Troops."  Nobody knows what the fuck this means.  It seems to have something to do with supporting wars regardless of motive and regardless of cost in cash or human lives.

5.  "Education < a punch in the face."  If you feel intimidated intellectually, beat the fucker up.

6.  "NASCAR = Patriotism".  No shit.

7.  "The South shall rise again." (Lost Cause)  IE, we were right to fight, and one day we'll do it again.

8.  "There's a difference between Black people and niggers".  Nuff said.

9.  "Any White woman who sleeps with or even associates with non-Whites is 'tainted'."  This is pretty much EVERYWHERE.

10.  "This is a Christian nation, so faggots should die."

There's probably some that I've forgotten, but those are the major points.

With the exception of the "South shall rise again" bit, that's the exact same as everywhere else in America. I am, however, enjoying the irony of watching people turn southerners into "Other" for the crime of, uhh, turning other people into "Other".

As I said, keeping the South was a mistake, as the bastards contaminated the rest of the country.

And as far as I'm concerned, all humans are "Other".  That's why I hang out with freaks.

ROGER,

          so we are to understand that all people from the south are bastards which contaminated the rest of the country? that's not bigoted. saying you hang out with "freaks" is not a get out of jail free card when you are insisting an entire culture of people are a contaminant. sure, that is also all people, but that's not what you are saying. what about blacks who live in the south?

I think I said about 30 times that this is NOT universal. 

I am not about to spend all fucking day speaking e-prime. 

Go shit in your hat.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I think this thread has reached the point where we are now picking apart semantics so we can have an argument for the sake of having an argument.

Everyone agrees that racism is bad and generalizations are bad. Except GA who apparently has jumped the proverbial shark. I'm pretty sure everyone also agrees that history is more complex and nuanced than the Union's flat-out "we won and they're evil" oversimplification of events. If not then I guess there's still something worth arguing about.

But if it's just "you didn't phrase X just right and even though I'm capable of seeing past the wording, I'm going to nitpick because I want to," then... I don't know. Meh.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know, there's a certain type of person who likes to take cheap shots when they know someone's having a bad day.

I have long made it a practice to put up with that.  Changing that now.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think this thread has reached the point where we are now picking apart semantics so we can have an argument for the sake of having an argument.

I think this thread has reached the point where we are now arse biscuits taunting arse biscuits because we're too fucking OOK OOK to do anything else.

Which is a damn shame, because I spent a while digging up some links for Nigel, but thanks to Captain Fallacy and Boy Strawman, I'm just not prepared to continue.

[E.O.T.]

I do find it interesting that Cain's description of the South's military strategy makes him a bigot of some kind.  So now we've reached "revisionist history is canon:  to argue implies racism".

Odd, since the implied stance of everyone ITT engaging in anti-southern bigotry seems to be "defending the south in any way implies racism".

THANK YOU!

          i have to state again, that vex is achieving the unthinkable in bringing this topic to the table and providing completely supported and rational conversation, which is being met with some equally disappointing response.  consider at the fact that i can hardly keep up with this thread cuz it's so explosive!

IT IS TOTALLY O.K.

          to not agree with one another, i am personally all about that, but can we discuss this without all the gutter opinion?

MAN,

          if i said that all africans were stupid, because clearly they're not winning any major military achievements, even if they tried, would you be ok with that? or if i said blacks were slaves because they're stupid, that'd be alright?

HELL NO!

          why are only ech, nigel, vex and g. applesauce able to approach this topic in a reasonable manner? and freaky?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

          why are only ech, nigel, vex and g. applesauce able to approach this topic in a reasonable manner? and freaky?

Because the rest of us are stupid, obviously.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I am now putting EOT in the same box as RWHN.  Here to nitpick and troll, and just generally be a shitmonkey.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

          to not agree with one another, i am personally all about that, but can we discuss this without all the gutter opinion?

Not anymore.  Asswipe.

[Freeky]

I do find it interesting that Cain's description of the South's military strategy makes him a bigot of some kind.  So now we've reached "revisionist history is canon:  to argue implies racism".

Odd, since the implied stance of everyone ITT engaging in anti-southern bigotry seems to be "defending the south in any way implies racism".

THANK YOU!

          i have to state again, that vex is achieving the unthinkable in bringing this topic to the table and providing completely supported and rational conversation, which is being met with some equally disappointing response.  consider at the fact that i can hardly keep up with this thread cuz it's so explosive!

IT IS TOTALLY O.K.

          to not agree with one another, i am personally all about that, but can we discuss this without all the gutter opinion?

MAN,

          if i said that all africans were stupid, because clearly they're not winning any major military achievements, even if they tried, would you be ok with that? or if i said blacks were slaves because they're stupid, that'd be alright?

HELL NO!

          why are only ech, nigel, vex and g. applesauce able to approach this topic in a reasonable manner? and freaky?

Why are you ignoring the part where they are having two different conversations?  It's where the original conflict came into being and was later cleared up, and you must have read up to that part to know that I was trying to be reasonable.

I can't even wrap my head around this.  You're starting shit, but for what reason?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I do find it interesting that Cain's description of the South's military strategy makes him a bigot of some kind.  So now we've reached "revisionist history is canon:  to argue implies racism".

Odd, since the implied stance of everyone ITT engaging in anti-southern bigotry seems to be "defending the south in any way implies racism".

THANK YOU!

          i have to state again, that vex is achieving the unthinkable in bringing this topic to the table and providing completely supported and rational conversation, which is being met with some equally disappointing response.  consider at the fact that i can hardly keep up with this thread cuz it's so explosive!

IT IS TOTALLY O.K.

          to not agree with one another, i am personally all about that, but can we discuss this without all the gutter opinion?

MAN,

          if i said that all africans were stupid, because clearly they're not winning any major military achievements, even if they tried, would you be ok with that? or if i said blacks were slaves because they're stupid, that'd be alright?

HELL NO!

          why are only ech, nigel, vex and g. applesauce able to approach this topic in a reasonable manner? and freaky?

Why are you ignoring the part where they are having two different conversations?  It's where the original conflict came into being, and you must have read up to that part to know that I was trying to be reasonable.

I can't even wrap my head around this.  You're starting shit, but for what reason?

Who needs a fucking reason?  It's PD.  We are pathologically incapable of having an intelligent discussion, because of e-prime requirements and general shit-tick behavior.

Why do we even fucking bother having serious discussions?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Seriously.  In some ways, this shit hole is worse than Capitol Grilling.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

EOT:

I never said people from the South are subhuman.  They are all too human, and many of them carry an all-too infectious meme. My personal (anecdotal, but that's all I have to work with) experience in the South has been universally shitty, with 90% of everyone I've met being at least partially billygoon.

FFS. LOCKERS&SCHOOLS&BIGOTS&BIGOTS&BIGOTS