A thought on sluts

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is nothing earth-shaking, and surely has been thought/written about before, but I was just showering today and pondering a couple of recent incidents in which I turned down a would-be suitor, and it occurred to me that the underlying thing that men who are threatened by female sluts are threatened by, is not that they are free to sleep with whomever they wish, but that they are free to to turn down whomever they wish.

Attach some notion of virtue to women's sexuality that dictates that her sexuality belongs to one man only, or at least one man at a time; if a woman turns a man down because she's married or has a boyfriend (and thus her sexuality is already "owned" by someone else) or she's "not that kind of girl" (ie. she equates having sex with as entering a contract, and she doesn't want to enter that contract with you), and he can rationalize that she wanted him, but... and walk away with his ego intact. If a slut turns him down, though, there is nothing he can do but face the unpalatable reality of actual rejection; she said no because she simply doesn't want him.

Thoughts?

[hooplala]

I think that is it exactly. 

"They say she'd fuck anyone, but she turned me down.  What does this say about me?"

I wonder what the percentages of rapists like Ted Bundy, who was considered to be a good-looking popular guy, are as opposed to guys who would either have to pay a prostitute or resort to abject masturbation?  My guess is there are plenty of good-looking rapists who one would think would be able to get laid without force, but for whatever reason they feel the need to inflict themselves on women.

[Faust]

There are plenty more ways to avoid that truth. If you are rejected by a slut then she is a dumb slut. Or a bitch, that he didn't really want anyway.

What I discovered recently is that irish men rarely attack women by calling the sluts but other women are viscous in that regard.

[LMNO]

Somewhat relevant:

http://jezebel.com/5923855/turns-out-getting-slutty-on-the-first-date-can-lead-to-marriage?tag=relationships

The point is that if you do want to have sex, and he wants to have sex too, then what the fuck is stopping you? Objectively? What is it? Some made-up rules about the purity of your vagina? Please. Which got me thinking—who invented this system, who benefits from it, and who perpetuates it?

The answers are men, men, and everybody. First of all, this paradigm is hella old. It was probably invented by, like, the 4th dude. This is basic stuff. The idea that a woman is property that can be "soiled" and then lose its value once it becomes "used" is the basis for the majority of the subtle patriarchal oppression that still crushes women all over the place. And nowadays, the dude gets to have sex with as many women as he wants and, thanks to our primordially ingrained double standard, still maintain the moral high ground—he's better than her because she gave it up "too soon" (according to some arbitrary Gregorian boner calendar). "Eeeeew, gross, lady! You're a terrible person for doing that thing that I was literally begging you to do five minutes ago!"

[EK WAFFLR]

Sounds about right. Most men are absolutely horrible at handling rejection. I've witnessed it so many times when out drinking.
Many men equate flirting with "I want to have naked secks with this strange man" and can't quite cope with the fact that that is not how it is.

[EK WAFFLR]

Also somewhat relevant: http://www.amazon.com/The-Ethical-Slut-Relationships-Adventures/dp/1587613379/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342539342&sr=8-1&keywords=the+ethical+sult

[hooplala]

Sounds about right. Most men are absolutely horrible at handling rejection. I've witnessed it so many times when out drinking.
Many men equate flirting with "I want to have naked secks with this strange man" and can't quite cope with the fact that that is not how it is.

I think in general most people are horrible at rejection, but men can more easily DO something about it.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

This is nothing earth-shaking, and surely has been thought/written about before, but I was just showering today and pondering a couple of recent incidents in which I turned down a would-be suitor, and it occurred to me that the underlying thing that men who are threatened by female sluts are threatened by, is not that they are free to sleep with whomever they wish, but that they are free to to turn down whomever they wish.

Attach some notion of virtue to women's sexuality that dictates that her sexuality belongs to one man only, or at least one man at a time; if a woman turns a man down because she's married or has a boyfriend (and thus her sexuality is already "owned" by someone else) or she's "not that kind of girl" (ie. she equates having sex with as entering a contract, and she doesn't want to enter that contract with you), and he can rationalize that she wanted him, but... and walk away with his ego intact. If a slut turns him down, though, there is nothing he can do but face the unpalatable reality of actual rejection; she said no because she simply doesn't want him.

Thoughts?

THIS is the payoff for sticking out PD through shit like &drugs&drugs&drugs.
Fucking INCISIVE.

I also question if sluts even truly exist. The trope is that they fuck anybody who wants it. Being hit with the reality that a woman they think of as a "slut" is a person with likes, dislikes and a degree of autonomy, not some kind of old sock to jack off into, is probably some of what pisses these guys off, too.

[Suu]

One of my bestest guy friends has told me that he will not take a woman seriously if she puts out on the first date. He will still sleep with her, but he won't call her back. If you want to fuck and have a one-night stand, or be fuck buddies, that's cool, but, if you wish to enter a dating relationship, having sex on the first date is a no-no. Though, as a man, when offered vagina, he won't turn it down, but it will change the relationship's dynamic in his head. He may not view her as a "slut" per se, but he won't respect her as potential girlfriend material.

Slut shaming is more of what women do to women. I'm guilty of slutting occasionally (ie. fucking on the first date,) but I wouldn't call myself *A* slut. Those are cases of me being stupid and horny, and not using my best judgement, and, because of my own stupid moves, I don't feel like I can really shame anyone for doing the same thing. My sister doesn't have a solid relationship with anyone right now, she just plays regularly with some of the Philadelphia Phillies, and I don't mean baseball. Again though, it's her decision, even if I downright don't approve of it.

Dear Coke Talk has covered this subject before. She's damn good at discussing/slamming the idea of "sluts".

[LMNO]

One of my bestest guy friends has told me that he will not take a woman seriously if she puts out on the first date. He will still sleep with her, but he won't call her back. If you want to fuck and have a one-night stand, or be fuck buddies, that's cool, but, if you wish to enter a dating relationship, having sex on the first date is a no-no. Though, as a man, when offered vagina, he won't turn it down, but it will change the relationship's dynamic in his head. He may not view her as a "slut" per se, but he won't respect her as potential girlfriend material.

You realize that's completely fucking bullshit, right?  The majority of my long-term relationships started with first-date fucking (or at least heavy petting).  Including the woman I married.  Writing off a potential long-term partner just because she's as horny as you are is fucking ridiculous.

[Suu]

But...that's his opinion. To him it's not bullshit, but to you it is.

There's really no right or wrong answer in this type of argument as everybody has a completely different view of morality and sexuality.

[LMNO]

But...that's his opinion. To him it's not bullshit, but to you it is.

There's really no right or wrong answer in this type of argument as everybody has a completely different view of morality and sexuality.

I think a lot of people's opinions are bullshit.  Especially opinions that negatively judge a person's personality based upon their biological desires.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Women should be encouraged to be sluts, I think. I have a hard time understanding this cultural stereotype that men are driven literally berserk by their libidos, and women have sex drives approaching zero. It also turns me off completely to see sex being used to sell so many things (to men, of course). I wish I could say it was a moral objection I have to it but really it's just that I have a thing for seeing women embracing their own sexual desires for their own benefit (as opposed to flaunting their attractiveness for the benefit of men), probably because it tends to validate my own libido.

[hooplala]

Women should be encouraged to be sluts, I think.

HEAR HEAR!

*cough*

I mean... right on?

[EK WAFFLR]

Women should be encouraged to be sluts, I think. I have a hard time understanding this cultural stereotype that men are driven literally berserk by their libidos, and women have sex drives approaching zero. It also turns me off completely to see sex being used to sell so many things (to men, of course). I wish I could say it was a moral objection I have to it but really it's just that I have a thing for seeing women embracing their own sexual desires for their own benefit (as opposed to flaunting their attractiveness for the benefit of men), probably because it tends to validate my own libido.

YES!