Three Little Questions

[Don Coyote]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

You seem to have a pretty optimistic view. I think many people know that their clothes/electronics/shoes/etc either come from sweat shops or are cheap because sweat shops decrease the cost to the market. There are new reports about companies all the time... Motorola, Adidas, Nike, Wal-Mart... and at worst these companies get a PR hit, a dip in the stocks and then business as usual.

I think it may simply be that the average consumer is so busy dealing with their own enslavement to the system that they don't really have the bandwidth to care about someone else's enslavement... or maybe, at least, when it does not directly involve chains and whips and cotton fields or diamond mines.

I think it's that they just WON'T LOOK.

Should we try to make them look?  I have that Jiminy Cockroach character in my head, making me look at shit.  Shouldn't they be able to enjoy the same luxury?

Yes. They NEED Jiminy Cockroach.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Out of sight, out of mind. I have been in a discussion where the sentence "You can't industrialize without slavery" was uttered. People know what's going on, but they're not going to change their attitudes about it, much less their behaviors.

NUMBERS:
In China, which does a large part of production for cheap shit in America, average worker salaries are about 1/30th of salaries here. So, take the 32GB Apple iPad 2 for example. This device costs Apple $335 to produce, including labor. If it was produced in the USA, it would cost Apple $618 to make it. Right now the device sells for $729. To maintain the profit margin, a Made-in-USA iPad would need to sell for about $1,144. The current price would still make a profit for Apple, but only at 15% instead of 54%. This of course assumes that the supply chains for the components of the iPad stays the same. If we produced all the raw materials and components in the US, the price would again rise. Source

But at least with the iPad, the problem isn't that it's impossible to produce these things in the USA by workers who aren't subjected to slavery. The problem is that doing so would be uncomfortable for profit margins. It wouldn't put anyone out of business, but there would be fewer Free Bentley with the Purchase of This Mansion deals, and the Middle Class might not collapse. AND PRICES WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SKYROCKET.

So the answer to the questions in the OP isn't just "no," it's "FUCK NO AND WHY AREN'T WE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?" Unfortunately that isn't a rhetorical question. It has an answer: we aren't doing anything about it because we don't fucking care.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Been poking at Lysander Spooner again?

Slavery, in any form is slavery... anytime the individual is forced to do X or not do X (within the context of their personal decisions about their personal life) it is a form of slavery, doesn't matter if the person doing the forcing is a Southern Plantation owner, a sweat shop boss or the local government.

From a moral perspective, given the above statement, it would be impossible not to benefit from slavery indirectly. To use the old stereotype... if you pay less taxes because some prisoner is making the license plates/cleaning the roads... you're benefiting from slavery. If you buy a product, even from a reputable shop... their prices are influenced by the supply provided to the market by Wal-Mart... again you're benefiting.

So I think, for me, it is ethically wrong to directly support, or benefit from slavery in any form within the confines of the society I'm struck in.

Unless I'm gonna go live in the woods, live off the land, make my own everything and become the 21st century Daniel Boone... its simply not possible. Hell, how many of the electronic components that are installed in servers/routers/computers that we're using to have this discussion exist either directly or were cheaper because of 'slavery' in one form or another?

I am not saying to walk away from civilization in some high-minded huff.  It wouldn't help the problem at all, and would serve only to encourage hipster-esque self-righteousness.

What I'm saying is that most people disapprove of slavery, but aren't actually aware that it is going on, or - if they are aware that it exists - the extent of the problem.  This is of course deliberate.

And there has to be a way to counteract that.

Answers to the OP are FUCK NO, FUCK NO, AND FUCK NO.

Somebody asked at the amazon forum if people would be willing to pay more for goods made in the USA than China. I answered that the US and China were the same to me, I don't care where things are made and I would only pay more if I had assurance that the goods weren't made by kids, prison or sweatshop labor. I even posted a link about prison labor, guessing that these people were yahoos.

It was like the fucking post was invisible. Nobody agreed, or disagreed or asked for more info. The thread just went on; "USA! USA!"

Sounds like a communication problem.

And even if the problem is at the other end, it still means that a different method is required.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Like the Leonard Cohen song... Everybody Knows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfS8LyeUyM

Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old black Joe's still pickin cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Like the Leonard Cohen song... Everybody Knows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfS8LyeUyM

Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old black Joe's still pickin cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

That in fact is one of my top 3 favorite songs of all time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Out of sight, out of mind. I have been in a discussion where the sentence "You can't industrialize without slavery" was uttered. People know what's going on, but they're not going to change their attitudes about it, much less their behaviors.

Slavery hasn't been actually necessary since the invention of the horse collar.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Out of sight, out of mind. I have been in a discussion where the sentence "You can't industrialize without slavery" was uttered. People know what's going on, but they're not going to change their attitudes about it, much less their behaviors.

Slavery hasn't been actually necessary since the invention of the horse collar.

Are mittens overdone? I want to post mittens.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Seriously...Before the horse collar, you HAD to use slaves, because a horse couldn't work as hard as 5 people because the harness would choke it if you went any faster...And a horse eats as much as 5 people.

After the horse collar, the horse could do the work of 8 people, and only eat as much as 5 people.  Slavery became unnecessary at that point.  We clung to it then for the same reason we cling to it now:  Because we all want nice things, but we don't want to actually do the shit work.

That's why illegal aliens pick your food up out of the fields for less than a living wage (when they aren't just ripped off outright, as Garbo has talked about in the past).  Americans won't pick cabbage at any price.

[Don Coyote]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

This was last quarter, and they already watched the wonders of recycling in China.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

This was last quarter, and they already watched the wonders of recycling in China.

Jesus.

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND, THE ONE-EYED PIG IS KING.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

This was last quarter, and they already watched the wonders of recycling in China.

Jesus.

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND, THE ONE-EYED PIG IS KING.

Pig? The hogs are at the table. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

This was last quarter, and they already watched the wonders of recycling in China.

Jesus.

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND, THE ONE-EYED PIG IS KING.

Pig? The hogs are at the table. 

HELL IS EMPTY.  ALL THE DEVILS ARE HERE ON WALL STREET.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

It is wrong on all three part, but the monkeys don't want to listen. I brought this up in my global media class and I got either shocked looks or outright denial.

Needs Jiminy Cockroach.  MAKE them look.

See if you can get the prof on board.

This was last quarter, and they already watched the wonders of recycling in China.

Jesus.

IN THE LAND OF THE BLIND, THE ONE-EYED PIG IS KING.

Pig? The hogs are at the table. 

HELL IS EMPTY.  ALL THE DEVILS ARE HERE ON WALL STREET.

Hmmm...I wonder if hell has squatter's rights?