Collected Intermittens in print?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Got the all clear from CU

Great.  Now we just have to track down Semaj, who has been missing for 13 months.

[Placid Dingo]

Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?

[Placid Dingo]

Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?

My argument is that I didn't say what you said I said. But feel free to work with your above narrative if you prefer it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

Seriously?

Look, I'm not going to go there right now. It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

So I guess, since it's been decided by committee that I'm opposed to it, and further decided that my motivation is generically anti-capitalist, the committee can also decide for itself what my solution is, then explain why I agree to it. Problem solved.

So, your argument is that you didn't say what you said?

My argument is that I didn't say what you said I said. But feel free to work with your above narrative if you prefer it.

Whatever.  I have learned my lesson, here.  There is no middle ground anywhere.

Don't accomplish anything.

[Placid Dingo]

Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm down with this going ahead.

Bullshit.

Mmm. In retrospect " I'm down with this project" was pretty ambiguous. I may have sounded like I was saying I'm desirous of tearing down this project. Not in fact my intended implication.

That's not how I read it.

How I read it was "Don't do this unless you manage to personally contact everyone involved, which is fucking impossible at this point", despite the fact that everyone had already voluntarily put their stuff in intermittens and this is merely a collection of intermittens.

Creative Commons isn't a guarentee that someone is ok with a dead tree version. Thats my point. XKCD specifically may not be.

But youre free to interpret it as a don't do this if you want to have a problem to howl about rather than a conversation about copyright.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Creative Commons isn't a guarentee that someone is ok with a dead tree version. Thats my point.

Yep. 

Well done.

[Placid Dingo]

If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Not copyright. I mean if you sell my book for 10$ I can't sell it for $12.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Given this, I will finish working on BIP2013, then I will be doing no other co-op projects at all.  There's either the "by virtue of taking part, this is all MINE" mindset, or there's the "if you change format and let this stuff out of our little club, then you have to go back and get everyone to agree to what they already agreed to" mindset.

And that's a damn shame, but it is what it is.

But, hey, you got what you came for¹, and isn't that what really matters?





¹A chance to disagree with or stymie either Nigel or myself.  A worthy goal under any circumstances.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

Lulu is making a profit off of the service of printing the book.  You could pay them to print the phone book, it would cost the same, page per page.  Note the subtle difference.

But okay, let's play that game.  Why the fuck not?  Why accomplish anything?

look, if I wrote a story and you printed it on lulu, it takes away my ability to make money from selling it myself. Cory Doctorow writes stuff under a Creative Commons non commercial license. If you print his work out at cost on Lulu I will bet you anything that his publishers response won't be ' all good yo, they're making money from printing, not writing.'

No, it fucking doesn't.  Lulu holds no copyright, and you can set your copyrights as you see fit. 

But you've made your point.  We should probably take all the intermittens down now, right?  I mean, they're right there, and anyone can read/download them, so you won't be able to sell the work in question, as it is offered for free.

So, yeah.  No more cooperative works, as it either becomes "I own your shit now", or "We can't actually do anything with anything", and there's nothing in between.

Not copyright. I mean if you sell my book for 10$ I can't sell it for $12.

Right now, you can get it for FREE.

But what the hell?  Go peddle your books.  Let us know how that works out.  Especially seeing as how you can only sell your own contributions to the Intermittens, and not the whole thing.

[Placid Dingo]

Dear Placid Dingo,


A certain number of people desire a well-bound, dead-tree collection of Intermittens.  A solution was devised.  You are against it.


Please let us know what a proper solution for you would be, given the desired parameters.

I actually de-irritated quite quickly there.

So.my answer is that your assumption is wrong. I really love the idea of a bound version.

Mine borrows wider than PD. The back page has details of most works with non commercial license. I'd suggest checking in with them. I'll also check with the girl who did my cover but don't expect an issue.

Thats my view. Sorry for snaking - I find it really unpleasant to have other people putting words in my mouth, though I'm sure there was some honest misunderstanding.

If the Nigel wills it maybe some of this mess can be split off.

I will

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thats my view. Sorry for snaking - I find it really unpleasant to have other people putting words in my mouth, though I'm sure there was some honest misunderstanding.

I gotta ask you:

When you say "putting words in your mouth", are you actually saying, "I'd like to have both said what I said and also NOT what I said, as convenience dictates."?

Because, if you are, you may have a bright future in politics.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If the Nigel wills it maybe some of this mess can be split off.

I will

So that later, when she prints the book, you can say, "I disagreed, but someone moved my post!"

Riiiiiiight.

[LMNO]

It's become pretty clear that people are happy to define my opinion and intent for me.

If I provide content, generally, (I'm down with this project) I'll be pretty pissed is ANYONE makes money. Including Lulu. And as far as I'm concerned Lulu's profits from printing my content, is Lulu's profit from my content. So I don't think 'Its Intermittens so it's sure to be OK' is a forgone conclusion.

You said yourself you'd be "pissed" if we used Lulu to make hardcopy versions of Intermittens.  I'm asking you what your solution would be.


Now, your point about XCKD and whatever images you used is valid.  We may need to strip any non-original content, or not manipulated enough to consider original.  That's fair.  But that's not what you're upset about.

[LMNO]

Ok, so:  If we remove non-original content, we're good?