Sex Ed, PD style

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yeah, WHO WAS THAT MASKED MAN? 

[Juana]

Based on context, does that acronym stand for "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans-Gender, Queer, Asexual, and Pig-Fucker"?

People come up with the darndest names for things...

adding bbq was a huge step for the movement. the pig-fucker community, up until then was excluded and ridiculed, left to get off in dark alleyways and dirty underground nightclubs. police are people too you know.

I propose that in order to be inclusive and not leave anyone out, we just refer to the whole spectrum by the shorthand of "sexuality".

i concur, but i think these divisions can be helpful to the people contained within them because they've been told not to feel at home in the normative definition of sexuality. when a critical mass of people accept the whole spectrum, then maybe they'll feel ok with that? i'm not a huge fan of these divisions as well. the term feminism bothers me sometimes for this reason. i know third-wave is more about equality for everyone and is sex-positive, but it still feels like another boundary to break down. women can't move forward to a different sexual paradigm on their own and need the participation and education of men, however douchey and privileged we can be at times. most men can't get behind the term feminism though and start to lash back when they see women organizing. seems counterproductive. maybe my privilege is showing though?

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

[Freeky]

No it isn't, but it isn't necessarily theirs either. I'm looking at media hype and straw feminists in TV, movies, etc. Shit, before I started reading the discussions on it here I was ever embarrassed to say the word,  for fear that someone might write me off as crazy and not worth listening to. I still feel that way from time to time.

[East Coast Hustle]

Sadly, it ultimately IS womens' problem if men can't get behind the term "feminism", as reaching true equality in the current sociopolitical paradigm will require that men be on board.

I mean, I understand what you're saying but at this point that's more an ideal (that I agree with) than a reality.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

No it isn't, but it isn't necessarily theirs either. I'm looking at media hype and straw feminists in TV, movies, etc. Shit, before I started reading the discussions on it here I was ever embarrassed to say the word,  for fear that someone might write me off as crazy and not worth listening to. I still feel that way from time to time.

I don't say "feminist" in IRL conversation much, either, but I live in a yahoo community. So they see that I've got a little makeup on, I shave my legs and armpits, and there are men I actually like and will go out of my way for (ok, not local men, but men ). Then, if something like abortion comes up, I'll wave my hand in the general area of my ute and say "This belongs to me, not the state. It's MY business.". Hopefully this shit will bypass somebody's filters at some point, I don't know...

[East Coast Hustle]

Mind you, I'm not saying the term should be thrown out, but it will require alot of work and education for the word to lose its stigma.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Based on context, does that acronym stand for "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans-Gender, Queer, Asexual, and Pig-Fucker"?

People come up with the darndest names for things...

adding bbq was a huge step for the movement. the pig-fucker community, up until then was excluded and ridiculed, left to get off in dark alleyways and dirty underground nightclubs. police are people too you know.

I propose that in order to be inclusive and not leave anyone out, we just refer to the whole spectrum by the shorthand of "sexuality".

i concur, but i think these divisions can be helpful to the people contained within them because they've been told not to feel at home in the normative definition of sexuality. when a critical mass of people accept the whole spectrum, then maybe they'll feel ok with that? i'm not a huge fan of these divisions as well. the term feminism bothers me sometimes for this reason. i know third-wave is more about equality for everyone and is sex-positive, but it still feels like another boundary to break down. women can't move forward to a different sexual paradigm on their own and need the participation and education of men, however douchey and privileged we can be at times. most men can't get behind the term feminism though and start to lash back when they see women organizing. seems counterproductive. maybe my privilege is showing though?

I am talking about for the purposes of this conversation. "Sexuality" is a pretty good word to cover the spectrum of human sexual behavior that a good sex-ed program would touch upon, IMO.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Never mind, I guess this thread isn't about human sexual behavior anymore.

[East Coast Hustle]

I think that sex ed and feminism are (or at least should be) two very closely related subjects. If the concept of respecting women as people and respecting peoples' boundaries was part of a sex-ed curriculum it would do a whole lot of good to counter the rape culture. Trying to teach over already-ingrained programming is never as effective as instilling that teaching as the default programming from a young age.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that sex ed and feminism are (or at least should be) two very closely related subjects. If the concept of respecting women as people and respecting peoples' boundaries was part of a sex-ed curriculum it would do a whole lot of good to counter the rape culture. Trying to teach over already-ingrained programming is never as effective as instilling that teaching as the default programming from a young age.

I completely agree. I was just a little put off by being told that "sexuality" is an inadequate word when talking about sex-ed because transsexuality and transgender aren't sexualities.

My first reaction was "but wat does that have to do..." and my second reaction was "oh fukkit".

[Juana]

That was meant to be an aside, Nigel. The more important thing, at least so far as I intended, was that "sexuality" would sort of lump everything together (at least so far as I was thinking at the time) when I think it would be more valuable to differentiate some.
Although I suppose you could mostly lump certain things together (biseuxality and homosexality, and asexuality and demisexuality, perhaps?) and provide specific resources for each of them before moving on.

[SmogofCogs]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Garbo, you seem to be talking about sexual orientation, which is completely different from sexual behavior. Also, I think that in the context of the limited time frame this imaginary curriculum has, trying to address every permutation of possible human sexual expression is not only futile but also a waste of time, which is where you go "hey guys, there's a whole spectrum, here are some examples, it's all cool, now let's talk about generalities and how to identify resources and allies if you need to".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

[Juana]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

Yes, this.

Garbo, you seem to be talking about sexual orientation, which is completely different from sexual behavior. Also, I think that in the context of the limited time frame this imaginary curriculum has, trying to address every permutation of possible human sexual expression is not only futile but also a waste of time, which is where you go "hey guys, there's a whole spectrum, here are some examples, it's all cool, now let's talk about generalities and how to identify resources and allies if you need to".

Okay, fair point.