Sex Ed, PD style

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I want you to think about it this way:

this i realize. white behavior that discourages whites from being assholes to each other and blacks is usually not rewarded by society. i don't see the harm in having a space away from the mainstream and separate from (but cooperative with) blacks where whites can encourage each other to be good whites. am i being privileged here?

At the heart of it, isn't your objection that you don't want to join a movement that's about them... you want it to be about you?

It is understandable to want a movement that's about you, but in the end, if it has the same goals and objectives as feminism, and works cooperatively with feminism, its is inevitably, particularly historically, going to be seen as a subset of feminism. I'm not sure why you don't want that.

[Juana]

Society is already inherently male positive.

Well, yes and no.  It's inherently male positive so long as men act in accordance with patriarchical values.

One of the most interesting areas of feminist thinking, to me, is how patriarchical societies constrain men as well as they do women, and I strongly suspect if there was a greater focus on this, it would get a lot of guys who might otherwise be not so interested in feminism thinking about how such things impact on them personally.

Fair point.

[SmogofCogs]

i feel like i'm coming across as a bigoted asshole. i have no problem being a feminist. all i'm trying to say is that i can't derive my male identity from the movement because i'm only an ally to it. that means it's female-centric and it should be. yes, it deals with females and males, but not the totality of what it means to be male. and as GARBO pointed out, it is silly to derive my identity from it. well then where else should i look to find a space to express and discover a good positive male identity?

i've heard of white anti-racist spaces and i hear they're successful. of course they don't organize without input from the people of color community and a solid understanding of racism. but it's a place to go to if you're white to learn from other whites on how you're probably racist, how that feels to you as a white person, and how not to be such an ass.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i'm looking for the former description. can't men be organizing separately from women on these issues?

Why?  It's the same issue.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i feel like i'm coming across as a bigoted asshole. i have no problem being a feminist. all i'm trying to say is that i can't derive my male identity from the movement because i'm only an ally to it.

Male identity?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I want you to think about it this way:

this i realize. white behavior that discourages whites from being assholes to each other and blacks is usually not rewarded by society. i don't see the harm in having a space away from the mainstream and separate from (but cooperative with) blacks where whites can encourage each other to be good whites. am i being privileged here?

At the heart of it, isn't your objection that you don't want to join a movement that's about them... you want it to be about you?

It is understandable to want a movement that's about you, but in the end, if it has the same goals and objectives as feminism, and works cooperatively with feminism, its is inevitably, particularly historically, going to be seen as a subset of feminism. I'm not sure why you don't want that.

That does it.

I'm starting Rogerism.  I'm sick of The Man trying to KEEP ME DOWN.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

i feel like i'm coming across as a bigoted asshole. i have no problem being a feminist. all i'm trying to say is that i can't derive my male identity from the movement because i'm only an ally to it. that means it's female-centric and it should be. yes, it deals with females and males, but not the totality of what it means to be male. and as GARBO pointed out, it is silly to derive my identity from it. well then where else should i look to find a space to express and discover a good positive male identity?

i've heard of white anti-racist spaces and i hear they're successful. of course they don't organize without input from the people of color community and a solid understanding of racism. but it's a place to go to if you're white to learn from other whites on how you're probably racist, how that feels to you as a white person, and how not to be such an ass.

What you're saying about "male identity" is coming across as gibberish. Would you derive your "male identity" from any club or movement? I would think you would derive it from being the totality of who you are as a male. And that could include being a feminist. Lots of men, and in fact pretty much all of the men I know, identify as feminists.

So, you seem to be saying that you want a male feminist space that is organized with female input and a solid understanding of sexism; a place to go if you're male to learn from other males on how you're probably sexist, and how not to be such an ass. Do I hear you correctly?

Because if that is the case, you can call it whatever you want, and everybody is going to simply, correctly, identify it as a subset of feminism. Humans are really good at making connections like that.

You could always just join the legions of men who identify as feminists, if you wanted to skip a couple steps and join an established movement with millions of members. You could even talk to the guys, like maybe the ones here who keep trying to explain this to you.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I want you to think about it this way:

this i realize. white behavior that discourages whites from being assholes to each other and blacks is usually not rewarded by society. i don't see the harm in having a space away from the mainstream and separate from (but cooperative with) blacks where whites can encourage each other to be good whites. am i being privileged here?

At the heart of it, isn't your objection that you don't want to join a movement that's about them... you want it to be about you?

It is understandable to want a movement that's about you, but in the end, if it has the same goals and objectives as feminism, and works cooperatively with feminism, its is inevitably, particularly historically, going to be seen as a subset of feminism. I'm not sure why you don't want that.

That does it.

I'm starting Rogerism.  I'm sick of The Man trying to KEEP ME DOWN.

[Juana]

ROGERS UNITE!



You don't need one source for an identity. IME, actual people draw their identity from many sources but are more than the sum of those parts.
Otherwise you're an empty uniform.


/tangent

[Freeky]

That's sort of what is coming across to me:  This guy, as smart as he seems, is looking for a uniform, and thinks we are wearing uniforms (the kind that get tatooed on your body), but what he isn't getting is that it isn't about uniforms, it's about people.

Or something.  That actually sounds kind of dumb, but does anyone else see what I'm trying to say?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That's sort of what is coming across to me:  This guy, as smart as he seems, is looking for a uniform, and thinks we are wearing uniforms (the kind that get tatooed on your body), but what he isn't getting is that it isn't about uniforms, it's about people.

Or something.  That actually sounds kind of dumb, but does anyone else see what I'm trying to say?

yes, I think I do.

[Juana]

Ditto.


Also, going back to the OP, here: http://thesexuneducated.tumblr.com/post/27248456432/11-things-that-should-actually-be-in-sex-ed-classes

[Placid Dingo]

Ditto.


Also, going back to the OP, here: http://thesexuneducated.tumblr.com/post/27248456432/11-things-that-should-actually-be-in-sex-ed-classes

While I like some of that in theory, I started this thread after I realised in the Reddit thread that the question of what consent looks like isn't always understood. This is all very high level stuff at the link. Probably too high for a fundamental sexual education course I suspect.

[Reginald Ret]

One thing that may make consent even harder to spot is that people can be in two minds about something, especially sex. When you want sex but don't want to want sex how is the other supposed to read that? (the correct answer, ofcourse, is 'he/she is confused, that counts as a not now')

[Placid Dingo]

One thing that may make consent even harder to spot is that people can be in two minds about something, especially sex. When you want sex but don't want to want sex how is the other supposed to read that? (the correct answer, ofcourse, is 'he/she is confused, that counts as a not now')

Or 'ask'.