No Cause, No Ally

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Its the easy option.

And that, in reality, is what has put the bug up my arse.

[Faust]

Its the easy option.

And that, in reality, is what has put the bug up my arse.

Just yours? I just stopped reading that thread, and dismissed it because of what I saw. I wonder how many people will get as far as I did before they do the same?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Its the easy option.

And that, in reality, is what has put the bug up my arse.

Just yours? I just stopped reading that thread, and dismissed it because of what I saw. I wonder how many people will get as far as I did before they do the same?

Well, it got pretty egregious right at the end, there.

I'm re-thinking a lot of things as a result.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody's benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

[Faust]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

I know plenty of intelligent feminists  who pioneer the issue, they are all in science but that is the first point of call for me. Most of them are lecturers and good public speakers so they might have an advantage over us but the key difference I see is their matter of fact tone, their use of Empiricism, statistics and psychology and never going for anecdotal or personal stories.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

I know plenty of intelligent feminists  who pioneer the issue, they are all in science but that is the first point of call for me. Most of them are lecturers and good public speakers so they might have an advantage over us but the key difference I see is their matter of fact tone, their use of Empiricism, statistics and psychology and never going for anecdotal or personal stories.

A feminist is a feminist.  Multiple feminists are a power structure.

An eglatarian is an eglatarian.  Multiple eglatarians are a power structure.

And there's nothing really wrong with that.  It's just not something I'm interested in joining.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

I know plenty of intelligent feminists  who pioneer the issue, they are all in science but that is the first point of call for me. Most of them are lecturers and good public speakers so they might have an advantage over us but the key difference I see is their matter of fact tone, their use of Empiricism, statistics and psychology and never going for anecdotal or personal stories.

Might just be a bad taste in my mouth. But if this is what it is at the grassroots level, I don't want any part of it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

I know plenty of intelligent feminists  who pioneer the issue, they are all in science but that is the first point of call for me. Most of them are lecturers and good public speakers so they might have an advantage over us but the key difference I see is their matter of fact tone, their use of Empiricism, statistics and psychology and never going for anecdotal or personal stories.

Might just be a bad taste in my mouth. But if this is what it is at the grassroots level, I don't want any part of it.

It's not the "feminist" part that's the trouble.  It's the "grass roots" part.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody' benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

I'm not going to go that far.

I have to say, though, that if PD.com, the collection of the smartest people I know, can't manage it, then I don't have much hope in general.

I know plenty of intelligent feminists  who pioneer the issue, they are all in science but that is the first point of call for me. Most of them are lecturers and good public speakers so they might have an advantage over us but the key difference I see is their matter of fact tone, their use of Empiricism, statistics and psychology and never going for anecdotal or personal stories.

Might just be a bad taste in my mouth. But if this is what it is at the grassroots level, I don't want any part of it.

It's not the "feminist" part that's the trouble.  It's the "grass roots" part.

Yeah.

Still taking an extended hiatus. Ugh.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting observation:  When you become more amenable to new ideas, when you change your mind on a subject, two things appear to happen in the minds of the people you've agreed with.  First, it is taken for granted that you are now 169% on board with every portion of every argument...And second, that you can now be safely treated with contempt, with less cordiality that people who never even considered changing their minds.  People who outright oppose the aims of the people you've agreed with are given carte blanche, while those willing to meet them halfway are ground up into hamburger.

Now, we've discussed a lot of things in the last few days.  I've agreed that certain swear words are inherently ugly.  I haven't changed my mind again, or anything.  I still say that labels are part of the politics of division, and I still stand against their use in any manner other than mere description.  In fact, the idea of self-labeling or labeling others is abhorrent to me.

I have also said that being an eglatarian is part of what I am.  I am not about to change that, because it's the right thing to do...And I don't need anyone's permission to be so.    I do not require the approval of any other eglatarians (feminism, civil rights backers, anything).

And this is good, because I have decided that I can't and won't be anyone's ally in these matters.  I will not tolerate non-eglatarian behavior around me, but that's as far as I'm interested in going, anymore.  Anytime you organize, you bring in politics, and frankly I at this moment in time cannot tolerate any more politics.  You can do that without me.

I am certainly not going to be anyone's dog for the privilege of being an "ally".

This is interesting, and I will note for the record that I wrote my "The Deciders" post before reading this, but it does reinforce some of the thoughts I laid out there.

[Juana]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody's benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

We really, really got wrapped up in feminism as for what it means to women, so I understand where you're coming from, and parts of the discussion left me with a bad taste, too (some of which is my fault, let's be real). But I think it's generally acknowledged that feminism without intersectionality (because all bigotry and oppression feeds into other kinds) is meaningless, because it pretty much takes care of straight, affluent, white, Western women and leaves everyone else (women in the rest of the world, PoC, the queer community, the poor, etc.) out in the cold. It ends up boiling down into another flavor of bigotry because it's so exclusionary, intentionally or otherwise.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody's benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

We really, really got wrapped up in feminism as for what it means to women, so I understand where you're coming from, and parts of the discussion left me with a bad taste, too (some of which is my fault, let's be real). But I think it's generally acknowledged that feminism without intersectionality (because all bigotry and oppression feeds into other kinds) is meaningless, because it pretty much takes care of straight, affluent, white, Western women and leaves everyone else (women in the rest of the world, PoC, the queer community, the poor, etc.) out in the cold. It ends up boiling down into another flavor of bigotry because it's so exclusionary, intentionally or otherwise.

All politics are exclusionary.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm getting the feeling that I said something that hurt your feelings, and instead of being direct about it you're hinting around it. Is that what's going on?

[Juana]

All any of this changed my mind about was feminism. There isn't a "first wave", "second wave", etc., it's all Gloria Steinem first wave man-hate with a thin, faux gentle veneer of "this is for everybody's benefit!"

I remain pro-choice, etc. AS A HUMAN BEING, but I would MUCH rather be called "cunt" than "feminist".

At least "cunt" is honest.

We really, really got wrapped up in feminism as for what it means to women, so I understand where you're coming from, and parts of the discussion left me with a bad taste, too (some of which is my fault, let's be real). But I think it's generally acknowledged that feminism without intersectionality (because all bigotry and oppression feeds into other kinds) is meaningless, because it pretty much takes care of straight, affluent, white, Western women and leaves everyone else (women in the rest of the world, PoC, the queer community, the poor, etc.) out in the cold. It ends up boiling down into another flavor of bigotry because it's so exclusionary, intentionally or otherwise.

All politics are exclusionary.

I want to agree with that, but in order to fix shit, there needs to be some politics. There needs to be recognition that there are groups with fewer rights and freedoms and there needs to be action (in the courts, legislation, on the ground changes like your egalitarianism) to solve that. Because without that, how can we even hope to make everyone properly equal?