How most men, even good caring men, have no clue what women go through

[Juana]

I'd thought we'd resolved that already. I'm sorry, Roger. Let me know if you want to talk about it later?

We resolved part of it (the man tears thing, for example).  The parts we didn't resolve were:

1.  The idea of anyone leading, and the implicit idea of subordination, which is the problem, not a solution.

2.  The braying mockery from Signora Paesior, and the lack of anything said about it, and in fact some agreement with it.

2. I don't remember that at all. Maybe I'll go dig through the thread for it.

1. I can get behind that.

[Juana]

How blessed he was that you would take the time to talk to him, Faust.

About the time I registered to this site I came about a hairs breath away from being that guy. Unless someone is flashing their knob, grabbing, or shitting themselves I think the bus example is a bad one.

I'm glad you didn't go down that road, but just because you're okay with random strangers striking up a conversation doesn't mean you should begrudge women who shut that down (because that's how you came across to me). You're less socially vulnerable than a woman, and women are constantly aware of that vulnerability.

[Bu🤠ns]

All women?

[Freeky]

All women?

I shouldn't think so.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

How about just leaving it up to the individual if they want to talk or not, WITHOUT the need for an explanation: "I'm a woman, I'm more vulnerable", etc.

Nobdody owes anybody an explanation. You want to be left alone, or you want to talk. Your business.

[Bu🤠ns]

All women?

I shouldn't think so.

I mean my wife can throw down HARD.  It's one of those reasons why I married her. 

Burns,

Knows a strong person when he sees em.

How about just leaving it up to the individual if they want to talk or not, WITHOUT the need for an explanation: "I'm a woman, I'm more vulnerable", etc.

Nobdody owes anybody an explanation. You want to be left alone, or you want to talk. Your business.

That rings better to my ears/eyes

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

How blessed he was that you would take the time to talk to him, Faust.

About the time I registered to this site I came about a hairs breath away from being that guy. Unless someone is flashing their knob, grabbing, or shitting themselves I think the bus example is a bad one.

I agree at this point.  It would seem to me that the article is more about social fear and the bit at the end:

So when people (men) want to talk about "legitimate" forms of assault, tell girls they should be nice to strangers and give men the benefit of a doubt, tell them to consider it a compliment, tell them to ignore the bad behavior of men, I want them to be forced to feel, for even one minute, what it feels like to have so much verbal hatred and physical intimidation thrown at them for nothing more than being female and not wanting to share. 

I just wanted to read my book.

It's not my fault I'm pretty.

is intentionally inflammatory, mildly ego-centric, and misses the actual cause of the violent outburst.
Dude was on the edge, almost certainly mentally ill.  That it manifested as a horrible exaggeration of unfortunate (but IN NO WAY uniform) social norms is beside the point to me.  It is also possible, just possible, that the story is "based on a true story" and intended to draw people to a blog and insert a political quip.

I believe from personal experience that introversion is among the worst of all social defenses. If she's pretending to read to avoid contact with males that she is so certain are only interested in (her) sexuality then is seems like an anxiety issue. 

The complaint is not invalid.  Women are OFTEN harassed in situations where exit is not an immediate option. Some of the toughest chicks I know are masters of getting past that and seeing what these folks are into. Then telling them to go away if appropriate.

...

this is the kind of second-guessing and denial of someone else's experience that I was talking about.

It also seems to ignore the likelihood that the particular form that the man's expression of mental illness took was, in itself, shaped by a culture of entitlement. His entire outburst revolves around it.

I find it odd that you find it so unbelievable, and that much more disheartened. If I had a nickel for every "fuck you, bitch!" or similar sentiment... usually given simply because I don't engage... I'd be able to buy an Ipad, at least. 

I'm not even going to touch your "pretending to read" comment. That's beyond condescending.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Nice.  are you eating...


PILLZ HERE?

POPCORN!  pink popcorn.

That's me, Signora  and Net, sorry for threadjacking...

No need to apologize, people usually return to the issues if they really want to.

[Juana]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm not sure what you are arguing, Stella, or why you are trying to make her look stupid or wrong. She is neither.

Ditto.

It's like a lot of people want to simply discredit the chick telling the story, rather than the harder task of facing the social structure that creates an environment conducive for that kind of encounter.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm not sure what you are arguing, Stella, or why you are trying to make her look stupid or wrong. She is neither.

I'm curious about who these people are who consider some forms of assault "legitimate", advise girls to be nice to strangers (can you picture anyone telling their daughters that???), say to "give men the benefit of the doubt" when they try to pick you up on a train, etc.

I genuinely want to know where she gets the idea that this is the norm.

Aren't you always telling us how awful Seguin is? You can probably start on that by looking outside. Go to Wal-Mart. Turn on the TV.

[Bu🤠ns]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

That just seems like over generalization. I do understand from everything I've read over the past month or so. Thing is, you could say the same thing about men in some respects but, it too would also be an over generalization.


Nigel, can you expound on what you mean by 'culture of entitlement'?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm not sure what you are arguing, Stella, or why you are trying to make her look stupid or wrong. She is neither.

I'm curious about who these people are who consider some forms of assault "legitimate", advise girls to be nice to strangers (can you picture anyone telling their daughters that???), say to "give men the benefit of the doubt" when they try to pick you up on a train, etc.

I genuinely want to know where she gets the idea that this is the norm.

Aren't you always telling us how awful Seguin is? You can probably start on that by looking outside. Go to Wal-Mart. Turn on the TV.

I don't even get it HERE. I had everybody behind me on the library pervert incident, which I've probably related here a couple of times. Nobody ever gave me a hard time for telling anybody to fuck off and I don't even know how many times I've done it here. A lot.

In fact, it's arguably just the opposite, if I was to tolerate every Tom, Dick and Harry walking up and trying to fuck me, I'd probably get slut shamed. Not that that's the right way to handle somebody with boundary issues, but it does happen to messed up women in small towns.

[Juana]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

That just seems like over generalization. I do understand from everything I've read over the past month or so. Thing is, you could say the same thing about men in some respects but, it too would also be an over generalization.


Nigel, can you expound on what you mean by 'culture of entitlement'?

The only men who are socially vulnerable are vulnerable because of how their intersectionality (for a lack of a better term) works out. A gay guy is vulnerable because he's gay. A MoC is vulnerable because he's a PoC. A disabled man is vulnerable because he's disabled. A poor guy is vulnerable because he's poor. His sex and gender have nothing to do with his vulnerability.

Women on the other hand, are. Go re-read the previous feminism threads for a look, but also think about the bullshit the Republicans are pulling regarding women's and reproductive rights this year. Or take a look at what's being done to Kristen Steward (your opinion of her specifically isn't important, but she got caught cheating and it's ruining her career, whereas if she were a man, it wouldn't). Or "Elevatorgate", the blow-up in the atheist community a year or so ago where a gal objected to being objectified and about half the atheist community proceeded to flip out at her (and there were rape and death threats made to her).
All of these are examples of women's social vulnerability.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, all women are more socially vulnerable to one degree or another. It has nothing to do with whether or not an individual can take care of herself and everything to do with the general society's opinion of women and females as a whole.

That just seems like over generalization. I do understand from everything I've read over the past month or so. Thing is, you could say the same thing about men in some respects but, it too would also be an over generalization.


Nigel, can you expound on what you mean by 'culture of entitlement'?

I already have so many times that I don't have it in me. I don't feel well. I'll see if I can muster it up tomorrow.