The Porn Princess Rant, Re-Written

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Porn comes to us via exploitation and misery. So does most manufactured goods nowadays. The gas that goes in our cars comes via bombing women and children. Drugs come via organised crime but most people are comfortable with that. Pron, however is worse because it's to do with sex and catholic guilt and badwrong.

I'm not saying most porn isn't unethical what I'm saying is, in my mind at least, it's no more unethical than most of the other shit we consume, once you don't have a bug in your ass aboout sex.

A point I'd like to consider before response.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

For the most part, yes.


I realize this won't and can't stand up to scrutiny.

Also realize that nobody is suddenly going to think you're an asshole over this, for the same reason that I don't think you're an asshole for posting that using a piece of electronics made by slave labor.

At least I hope nobody is.  I know I don't.

Of course not. LMNO rawks.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Porn comes to us via exploitation and misery. So does most manufactured goods nowadays. The gas that goes in our cars comes via bombing women and children. Drugs come via organised crime but most people are comfortable with that. Pron, however is worse because it's to do with sex and catholic guilt and badwrong.

I'm not saying most porn isn't unethical what I'm saying is, in my mind at least, it's no more unethical than most of the other shit we consume, once you don't have a bug in your ass aboout sex.

A point I'd like to consider before response.

It's easier not to purchase porn than to avoid things like cheap shit from China, though.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I've never bought porn. It's media. I don't buy media, I steal it. Most of it is pretty gross, tho, obviously stung out chicks, being forced to choke on cock, doesn't do it for me. I prefer reading about it on sites like Literotica but I'm some kind of weird pervert. I wouldn't grudge anyone who lacks the necessary imaginative faculty (or basic literacy skills) the right to watch a fuck movie when they feel the need to get off, much like I wouldn't grudge anyone the right to buy iPhones or drive a car.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Okay, thought about it.

There's a few realities in play, here:

1.  You CAN'T avoid using goods that were connected to slave labor.
2.  You CAN avoid buying (or stealing) porn.
3.  The two above examples demonstrate that "living by principle" is damn near impossible, these days.
4.  That doesn't mean you don't try.

P3nt brings up an excellent point, of course.  Which is more odious?  Watching a film that makes a commodity out of what is presumably a consenting adult, or using an iPhone that was made by slave children?  Or, for that matter, wearing clothing made by slave children?

On the other hand, saying "I can therefore enjoy my porn because worse things were done to create the TV I'm watching it on" is kind of a fucked up line of thinking.

A is bad.
B is worse.
A+B is worse than A or B.
A does not excuse B, nor does B excuse A.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Pretty much sums it up. Question is - how much can your conscience bear?

In this day and age it helps if the answer to that question is - a hell of a lot

[Verbal Mike]

First of all, Roger, in case I was one of the two spags who wanted this and didn't respond (since I recall asking for a link to the original) – sorry, just took me a while to get to it. It was my "read this thread next" all day today, but I got sidetracked watching the fun with Holist in other threads.

Yeah, so.  I like porn.  I suppose that's no surprise.  I've watched a lot of it, and a lot of different kinds.

These kinds of threads make me uncomfortable, which means I've got some thinking to do.

I'm going to admit that I'm most likely deluding myself, but there are a few actresses who really, really give off the impression that they're reasonably happy about their choice of careers.  There are also those who are directing themselves in their scenes, which gives them some control about what they're doing.  I'm thinking about people like Bobbi Starr, Belladonna, and Joanna Angel. 

I know there's a huge amount of porn where both actors are completely dead behind the eyes, and a disturbingly large amount of it is explicitly violent towards women, and there's quite a bit that's more or less geared towards non-consent (they film her saying she's willing, and then do their hardest to make her tap out and quit).  But let me be clear, that doesn't turn me on.

I realize that this is an area where my pride of being a rationalist is threatened; reason would dictate that even if sex-positive pornography existed, it would be a very very small portion of an industry that harms almost everyone who participates in it.  And yet, I watch.

Apart from details this post basically said what I would have wanted to say for myself. I have to think about this more and I'm glad for this thread, but where I am right now seems to be almost exactly where LMNO is.

I want to add that aside from having had some ads shown to me, and maybe clicking on one or two as a teenager, I have never in any way given money to the porn industry. I can see how even consuming free porn is a form of participating in demand and sustaining the industry, but the degree to which I have an effect on this seems very, very marginal compared to more direct consumer choice in which money is involved.

Also, personally, I'm very much a visual type, in all kinds of ways. And I look at women, all the time, can hardly help it most of the time (though I've reduced the length of staring and cut down on eye contact since reading in some other thread here about how just being stared at can drive some women to serious fear.) It's not just an admiring-their-shape thing, it's definitely a wanting-sex-with-their-body thing, but not to the degree that I get random hardons. (I've only had that in situations where there's prolonged physical contact or closeness involved together with communication and eye contact.) Sometimes I can get off on imagination alone, but having real visuals in front of me is a totally different ball-park. It's just gotten more and more difficult to find something that doesn't disgust me as my sensitivity to the actors' possible situations has grown.


Vex's point about porn consumption being a symptom of a problem is food for real thought, but unfortunately not something I'm comfortable getting into right now (but I'll definitely be thinking about it.)

Time frame is well past the 1970's...How accurate is this?
http://www.shelleylubben.com/porn-industry

"Out of about 1,500 performers working in California, 41 people that we know of died from AIDS, suicide, homicide and drug related deaths between 2007 and 2011...

"When the deaths of 129 porn performers over a period of roughly 20 years were analyzed it was discovered that were an unusually large number of premature deaths from such causes as drugs, suicide, murder, alcohol abuse, accidental death, and disease. It was also discovered that the average life expectancy of a porn performer is only 37.43 years whereas the average life expectancy of an American is 78.1 years"

The life expectancy detail really gave me pause, but I don't see a source there so I'm a bit suspicious. Does anyone know where the data is from?


I'm probably gonna lurk this thread more than participate, but thanks for starting it, Roger.

ETA: weirdly missing function words

[The Good Reverend Roger]

First of all, Roger, in case I was one of the two spags who wanted this and didn't respond (since I recall asking for a link to the original) – sorry, just took me a while to get to it. It was my "read this thread next" all day today, but I got sidetracked watching the fun with Holist in other threads.

No worries.  I was just being irritable.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Okay, thought about it.

There's a few realities in play, here:

1.  You CAN'T avoid using goods that were connected to slave labor.
2.  You CAN avoid buying (or stealing) porn.
3.  The two above examples demonstrate that "living by principle" is damn near impossible, these days.
4.  That doesn't mean you don't try.

P3nt brings up an excellent point, of course.  Which is more odious?  Watching a film that makes a commodity out of what is presumably a consenting adult, or using an iPhone that was made by slave children?  Or, for that matter, wearing clothing made by slave children?

On the other hand, saying "I can therefore enjoy my porn because worse things were done to create the TV I'm watching it on" is kind of a fucked up line of thinking.

A is bad.
B is worse.
A+B is worse than A or B.
A does not excuse B, nor does B excuse A.

Amen.

[Kai]

Porn comes to us via exploitation and misery. So does most manufactured goods nowadays. The gas that goes in our cars comes via bombing women and children. Drugs come via organised crime but most people are comfortable with that. Pron, however is worse because it's to do with sex and catholic guilt and badwrong.

I'm not saying most porn isn't unethical what I'm saying is, in my mind at least, it's no more unethical than most of the other shit we consume, once you don't have a bug in your ass aboout sex.

A point I'd like to consider before response.

It's pretty much the Dawkins Fallacy. Like you said above, "A does not excuse B, nor does B excuse A"; 'greater' evils don't excuse 'lesser' evils. They're all shitty and worth changing.

[LMNO]

Incidentally, I kind of want to start a thread about Male Gaze, but I don't want to start the whole thing up again if there's still hard feelings and stuff.  Thoughts?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Incidentally, I kind of want to start a thread about Male Gaze, but I don't want to start the whole thing up again if there's still hard feelings and stuff.  Thoughts?

I'll join you.

I have a tendency to leer which I'd like to dissect.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Incidentally, I kind of want to start a thread about Male Gaze, but I don't want to start the whole thing up again if there's still hard feelings and stuff.  Thoughts?

Go ahead.

[Placid Dingo]

The Fetish-Facebook Fetlife offers access to user submitted videos, which, tend to be amature produced if you purchase a paid account.

I have a feeling this is a more ethical alternative to free viewings that make companies a shittonne of money in advertising revenue.

I'm actually familiar with people who've done this because they disliked the level of violent mysogyny from free mainstream sites.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The Fetish-Facebook Fetlife offers access to user submitted videos, which, tend to be amature produced if you purchase a paid account.

I have a feeling this is a more ethical alternative to free viewings that make companies a shittonne of money in advertising revenue.

I'm actually familiar with people who've done this because they disliked the level of violent mysogyny from free mainstream sites.

The problem with Fetlife is that it is an EXTREMELY female-hostile environment, in my experience.