UNLIMITED holist appreciation thread

[Dildo Argentino]

Which raises some interesting ethical questions about professional football (and to a slightly lesser degree, soccer).

And about restaurants.

http://www.prole.info/ar/index.html

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Which raises some interesting ethical questions about professional football (and to a slightly lesser degree, soccer).

And about restaurants.

http://www.prole.info/ar/index.html

Interesting. I'm not sure anyone besides me is going to be just fine with that minuscule typeface, but it seems legit. I have never worked in a restaurant though...

That said, it seems like a stretch to compare it with football injuries or traumas from sex work.

edit: okay, got to the end, I do find the anarcho-communist critique valid often times, but the inevitable conclusion  about "the state = the root of all evil" seems a bit forced.

[East Coast Hustle]

I have to disagree with the idea that pornography is, by its very nature, exploitative and tantamount to sex trafficking. Pornography as it is typically produced may frequently have that effect, but the problem there is with how the porn industry currently works (mostly), not with pornography itself.

Also, I gotta agree with holist re: men watching porn. There are two types: men who watch porn, and men who lie about it and/or would watch it if they could. Even if on an intellectual level we know that we could be contributing to exploitative behavior, those baser instincts are pretty powerful.

I'm not gonna stop watching football either.

And I'm curious - if a man watches porn produced by, say, Tristan Taormino are they still a bad person?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I have to disagree with the idea that pornography is, by its very nature, exploitative and tantamount to sex trafficking. Pornography as it is typically produced may frequently have that effect, but the problem there is with how the porn industry currently works (mostly), not with pornography itself.

Also, I gotta agree with holist re: men watching porn. There are two types: men who watch porn, and men who lie about it and/or would watch it if they could. Even if on an intellectual level we know that we could be contributing to exploitative behavior, those baser instincts are pretty powerful.

I'm not gonna stop watching football either.

And I'm curious - if a man watches porn produced by, say, Tristan Taormino are they still a bad person?

There's a thread about this, and in that thread, we already hashed all this out and established that A. nobody thinks porn is inherently evul, and B. nobody thinks anyone is a bad person for watching porn.

Yet for some reason, Holist and that asshole guy keep arguing as if that's what people are saying. I guess because it's an easier target than addressing the real issues.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

[Dildo Argentino]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

That's pretty old news, sugar pie.

[Dildo Argentino]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

That's pretty old news, sugar pie.

Okay, fair enough. So is Oliver James, so it's hard to tell, sometimes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I should probably explain, because you're from a different country.

The short form: in the 1980's gymnastics was one hot property in the US. Public school gymnasiums were thoroughly equipped and held tryouts where little girls were recruited by coaching agencies.

In the 1990's scandals broke out left and right, and the nation was horrified to learn about the toll that was taken on these girls' lives. Physical suffering, mental suffering, eating disorders, and sex abuse scandals were all over the papers and talk shows. Gymnastics was drastically phased out of the public school curriculum in most places.

I know girls who were stunted and suffered permanent spinal and joint damage from gymnastics programs.

A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, I just caught up with that thread. Not sure why anyone's working so ahrd to make such a meaningless point.

Frankly, I'm MUCH more interested in the ethical implications of supporting professional football in the light of concussion damage and CTE becoming known to be prevalent in players at all levels of the game, even high school and below (in the case of concussion damage at least).

What's meaningless about it?

My personal opinion of football is that I can't (and therefore don't) support it, for the reasons you mention, which were taught to me at my pappy's knee. Not just concussion damage, but also joint and spine injuries.

If you haven't already done it, I suggest you also cast a cursory glance over how top-class gymnasts are made. And what happens to them.

That's pretty old news, sugar pie.

Okay, fair enough. So is Oliver James, so it's hard to tell, sometimes.

Hard to tell what?



Your comparison makes no sense. Oliver James is one minor celebrity out of a million minor celebrities who were popular for a minute a couple-few years ago. The gymnastics scandals were news that permeated the existence of everyone in the US old enough to remember Mary Lou Retton.

[Dildo Argentino]

A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

There are literally billions and billions of elements to social injustice, anyone thinking they are aware of all of them is kidding themselves, right?

Now I mentioned the evil that is pro sports (not all, but a great deal of it), and anyone who cared to respond at all only mentioned football.

So I made a mistake. Sorry. I am assuming that you are completely ignorant about some elements of social injustice (I think I could give you examples from over here), but I am making the same assumption about myself.

Oliver James writes interesting things about the causes of social injustice, particularly the above-average increase in social injustice in the ENglish-speaking world since the introduction of what he calls Selfish Capitalist Governance (Reagan and Thatcher, more or less).

I hope I haven't given further offence!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A factor that I find fascinating here is that for some reason you seem to keep assuming that people who are concerned about one element of social injustice are completely ignorant of other elements of social injustice. Why would you assume that?

There are literally billions and billions of elements to social injustice, anyone thinking they are aware of all of them is kidding themselves, right?

Now I mentioned the evil that is pro sports (not all, but a great deal of it), and anyone who cared to respond at all only mentioned football.

So I made a mistake. Sorry. I am assuming that you are completely ignorant about some elements of social injustice (I think I could give you examples from over here), but I am making the same assumption about myself.

Oliver James writes interesting things about the causes of social injustice, particularly the above-average increase in social injustice in the ENglish-speaking world since the introduction of what he calls Selfish Capitalist Governance (Reagan and Thatcher, more or less).

I hope I haven't given further offence!

It's the ASSUMPTION of ignorance that offends. People often say "hey, are you aware of X?" but that's very, very different from "if you feel this way about X then how can you justify supporting Y?" which is pompous and presumptuous.

And FOR SHAME, you ignoramus, you completely failed to notice or acknowledge my Jamie Oliver visual pun. I'm sure it's just because you're so woefully unaware.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

(the above was an example of how shitty it is to be talked down to with the assumption that you're ignorant, BTW)

[Dildo Argentino]

(the above was an example of how shitty it is to be talked down to with the assumption that you're ignorant, BTW)

It's not that shitty, by the way. But Oliver James? Did you know about his work? Minor celebrity he may have been, but that's not why he is worth reading.

I don't get the Jamie Oliver visual thing. But it's not because you have a terrible time making jokes, but because I am lacking in a sense of humour!