Wage Slavery

[The Good Reverend Roger]

These are the answers that I expected and hoped to hear.

Shouldn't have even asked, but my head is firmly lodged in my colon today.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

so, 11 days late, but my take on the whole legal side of prostitution is I support the Nordic Model, where the women operating as prostitutes are not acting illegally, but men who pay for sex are committing the crime.

What about women hiring gigilos/"escorts"?

Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, IMO.

Oddly, male escorts are rarely dismissed and humiliated like female prostitutes. And, though I imagine more than a few abused ones are out there, gigalos are almost invariably portrayed by the media as smooth, clean, smart and even respectable. And, of course, they are there seeing to a necessary job -- seeing to the needs of women who are either too wealthy or too unattractive to mingle like normal people. That's all bullshit of course, but that's what we're told about gigalos. The exact opposite of what we are told about prostitutes, even though they both exist for exactly the same reason and serve the same kind of clientele (aside from the assumption from male johns that prostitutes exist solely to be abused, insulted and taken advantage of).

[The Good Reverend Roger]

so, 11 days late, but my take on the whole legal side of prostitution is I support the Nordic Model, where the women operating as prostitutes are not acting illegally, but men who pay for sex are committing the crime.

What about women hiring gigilos/"escorts"?

Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, IMO.

Oddly, male escorts are rarely dismissed and humiliated like female prostitutes. And, though I imagine more than a few abused ones are out there, gigalos are almost invariably portrayed by the media as smooth, clean, smart and even respectable. And, of course, they are there seeing to a necessary job -- seeing to the needs of women who are either too wealthy or too unattractive to mingle like normal people. That's all bullshit of course, but that's what we're told about gigalos. The exact opposite of what we are told about prostitutes, even though they both exist for exactly the same reason and serve the same kind of clientele (aside from the assumption from male johns that prostitutes exist solely to be abused, insulted and taken advantage of).

Most male prostitutes sell their bodies to other men.

They usually don't die in their sleep.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

so, 11 days late, but my take on the whole legal side of prostitution is I support the Nordic Model, where the women operating as prostitutes are not acting illegally, but men who pay for sex are committing the crime.

What about women hiring gigilos/"escorts"?

Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, IMO.

Oddly, male escorts are rarely dismissed and humiliated like female prostitutes. And, though I imagine more than a few abused ones are out there, gigalos are almost invariably portrayed by the media as smooth, clean, smart and even respectable. And, of course, they are there seeing to a necessary job -- seeing to the needs of women who are either too wealthy or too unattractive to mingle like normal people. That's all bullshit of course, but that's what we're told about gigalos. The exact opposite of what we are told about prostitutes, even though they both exist for exactly the same reason and serve the same kind of clientele (aside from the assumption from male johns that prostitutes exist solely to be abused, insulted and taken advantage of).

Most male prostitutes sell their bodies to other men.

They usually don't die in their sleep.

Right, but for some reason that isn't the story we're told about male prostitutes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interestingly, media representation is more about presenting an idealized form of social norms in order to maintain the status quo than about presenting reality. You want to get into some interesting shit, look at how males and females are represented in young children's stories, and in what proportions.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Interestingly, media representation is more about presenting an idealized form of social norms in order to maintain the status quo than about presenting reality. You want to get into some interesting shit, look at how males and females are represented in young children's stories, and in what proportions.

BBC's Woman's Hour have done features on this. and many UK feminists are alarmed by the BBC's Cbeebies channel (for the pre-school age group) and how under-represented women and girls are, and how the male characters seem to have all the action roles. Of course mainstream media in general is not awesome with it's representations of women. 

[LMNO]

Get this:  Showtime even has a reality show about gigolos, casting them in a neutral-to-positive light.  Imagine them doing that with female prostitutes.  Not gonna happen.  What you get are things like Hookers at the Point which purports to be a documentary, but comes off as pretty exploitative.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Interestingly, media representation is more about presenting an idealized form of social norms in order to maintain the status quo than about presenting reality.

Obviously, I'd think.  Their owners have a vested interest in the status quo, and in pleasing fairy tales about how things are.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Tangentially related: I was just reading about a fascinating small experiment where a researcher reversed the genders in popular children's books as she was reading them to little boys 5 and under. With the genders reversed, the boys immediately noticed the lack of active male characters, were upset, and accused the researcher of "only liking girls and not liking boys".

Of course, for these boys such a reversal would have been extremely shocking and noticeable in contrast with the default signal they had been receiving all their lives. Little girls tend to notice the same thing and at some point usually ask the question "why aren't there many girls in stories?" but since they are raised with the default signal that female protagonists are a rarity, they are unlikely to be shocked and indignant about it at that age; it is the social norm.

[LMNO]

If you had a link nearby, I'd be very interested to read up on this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oooh! You can get the paperback used for a penny on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/Daughters-Sons-Experience-Non-Sexist-Childraising/dp/0631138854

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oooh! You can get the paperback used for a penny on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/Daughters-Sons-Experience-Non-Sexist-Childraising/dp/0631138854

Buying this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

Children's media has improved slightly since then, but unfortunately, not a whole lot. I'd love it if someone would do an analysis (fuck, maybe I'll do it, where's my project notebook) of current kids' media for the ratios of male to female characters, and also look at the roles the characters enact; particularly whether there are males enacting traditional female roles, because it seems that while our society has progressed to the point where depicting women as police officers and doctors and firefighters is accepted, depicting men as primary caregivers or nurturers is still quite rare, unless as a fulcrum for comedic plot development.