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Why is it so hard?

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, September 27, 2012, 05:28:51 PM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

September 27, 2012, 05:28:51 PM Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:30:49 PM by A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic
Why do most people find it so hard to admit to making a mistake? It's interesting; this one most bipedal and mature and confident maneuver, that can, with a few simple words, restore dignity, earn respect, smooth conflicts, resolve misunderstandings, and soothe hurt feelings is also one of the most difficult things for most people to do. Instead of admitting to being wrong, most people will try any amount of verbal acrobatics to try to defend, justify, distract, or to move the goalposts in order to preserve the illusion of having actually been right, and in the process may alienate people, make themselves look increasingly foolish and/or pathetic, and lose the respect of their community... the very opposite of the desired effect.

No matter how mature, wise, enlightened, flexible, or intelligent we are, we all fall prey to this sometimes. We all dig our heels in and screech, at least for a while. The reveal is in how far we are willing to go to defend the indefensible... are we willing to alienate those around us in order to cling to the belief that it's not US, it's EVERYONE ELSE?

There is tremendous power, and tremendous relief, in being able to say, "Oh. Yeah, I was wrong about that" or "I need to rethink my position" or "What you said convinced me, I changed my mind" or "Yep, that was a stupid thing to say" or, simply, "I'm sorry". It ends the fight. It restores respect.

Admitting to being wrong allows someone who made even the most egregious mistakes to reclaim their dignity and walk away from the battlefield intact, their mistakes forgiven and, usually, forgotten.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Freeky

#1
September 27, 2012, 05:35:09 PM
I do not even know, lady.  Can't even hazard a guess.  It's a really good question, though.

The Good Reverend Roger

#2
September 27, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
Western society - particularly America - equates "being wrong" or "making a mistake" with being a "loser", and that is the one unforgiveable sin.  People are conditioned with this attitude from birth, and not everyone can break that conditioning, or even recognize it.

A retraction is therefore taken as a sign of weakness, and an apology for saying something offensive is taken as rolling on your back like a defeated puppy.

What this accomplishes:

1.  People can't communicate.
2.  People are loaded with bad signal.
3.  People are unhappy.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

#3
September 27, 2012, 05:37:35 PM
Admitting you are wrong carries a huge reputational modifier.  It's pride, and embarrassment.

The Good Reverend Roger

#4
September 27, 2012, 05:39:44 PM
The thing to remember is that we Discordians don't share the same values as the general population.

For example, I can openly respect Cain's expertise on geopolitics or ECH's expertise with cooking, without feeling the need to compete with them.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Phox

#5
September 27, 2012, 05:40:33 PM
I suppose it boils down to the fact that people's self-assessment is more important than how they look to everyone else. While screeching and heel-digging, in their own minds, they are fighting for the TRUTHTM. They are RIGHT, and even if they aren't, they couldn' live with themselves if they backed down now. Far too much time and effort invested in it. So, the solution is simple. Rewrite the narrative in their own head until they actually believe that gravity is actually gremlins. It's easier to convince yourself that you are infallible, than it is to admit that you've been bested, isn't it?

Anna Mae Bollocks

#6
September 27, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
What's the actual payoff from not admitting you were wrong? Walking around lying to yourself after you've managed to make yourself look like a stupid asshole? Fuck that, I'll take "human and fallible but trying to do better."
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Good Reverend Roger

#7
September 27, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
Four words:  North Coast of India.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#8
September 27, 2012, 05:53:04 PM
In my own experience, the more quickly you admit to being wrong, the more quickly everyone forgets it ever happened. I learned this the hard way, after a number of knock-down drag-out fights in which I insisted I was right even though I was wrong. I am not immune from that tendency! But, I have found that IF I am able to rationally re-assess the situation as soon as possible, and say "I was wrong about that" and/or apologize if it's called for, it gets forgotten almost instantly. That is, the footprint left by my wrongness is so small as to be quickly washed away, whereas if I dig in and flail and screech, the trench I leave is going to take a looong time to erode into nothingness.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#9
September 27, 2012, 05:53:34 PM
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

Cain

#10
September 27, 2012, 05:54:59 PM
Also, relevant

http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_Mind

QuoteA sequence on the ultra-high-level penultimate technique of rationality: How to actually change your mind.

The Good Reverend Roger

#11
September 27, 2012, 05:55:21 PM
Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 27, 2012, 05:53:04 PM
In my own experience, the more quickly you admit to being wrong, the more quickly everyone forgets it ever happened.

And people view you as more intelligent if you back off of an obvious mistake as soon as you see it, even after the forget the incident.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Internet Jesus

#12
September 27, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
Does this apply to the Internet or life in general?
HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS!

The Good Reverend Roger

#13
September 27, 2012, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: Internet Jesus on September 27, 2012, 06:07:31 PM
Does this apply to the Internet or life in general?

Yes.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#14
September 27, 2012, 06:23:11 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 27, 2012, 05:54:59 PM
Also, relevant

http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/How_To_Actually_Change_Your_Mind

QuoteA sequence on the ultra-high-level penultimate technique of rationality: How to actually change your mind.

Oooh, I'm gonna read that after class!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

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