Educating Hunter: Libertarians

[Luna]

What I find most staggering about the libertarians and republicans I've encountered is the fact they have become cheerleaders for the very same people whose ideologies would rob them blind. It's like watching 18th century French peasants praising the aristocracy for their decadence.

This. I like this. It kind of itched something that I haven't quite been able to word.

Libertarianism is also closely linked to support for returning to the Gold Standard, about the dumbest idea in all of economic history.

I am just learning the ins and outs of this concept. So far it's hilarious. Don't spoil the ending for me.

ROGER WINS AGAIN.

Bullshit. It's the mind control lasers. You refuse to play fair.

I had a live one on facebook earlier pushing for voter ID.

Please explain the voter ID thing, I don't fully understand this issue. Why is it a bad thing? Is it just seen as a waste of money? How does the race component come into play in regards to ID. And why would a Lib support such a thing?ISn't that government interference/ more taxes needed for cards?

Getting educated as fuck up in here.

Short story on the voter ID thing...  General, the voter ID laws are skewed so that it's the folks who are more likely to vote Democratic that are getting screwed.  Students, the elderly, the poor are less likely to be able to get/pay for the ID to vote.  One of the main objections (other than it targets minorities and the poor) is that it is, at its heart, a poll tax, meaning you have to pay to vote, which has been illegal for years.

[hunter s.durden]

What if it's provided by taxes? Just an ID you get when you register?

[hooplala]

Also, Ayn Rand died on social security, and in her youth idolized a serial killer because he was a "true individual".

And she insisted that smoking was somehow beating the universe.

And she was constantly on speed.

And said disabled people are "leeches" and "looters".

And thought wearing a cape was a good fashion statement.

Yeah... I said cape.  She was crazy.

[hunter s.durden]

Also, Ayn Rand died on social security

Hold up...
Can you give me a good source on this? That would be a biggie, but I don't want to throw this bomb without some high yield sauce behind it.

[hooplala]

Also, Ayn Rand died on social security

Hold up...
Can you give me a good source on this? That would be a biggie, but I don't want to throw this bomb without some high yield sauce behind it.

Lemme look... it's possibly an urban legend, I guess... I'll try to source it.

[hooplala]

This Huff Post article says so, not sure how reliable they might be considered:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Unfriended. Just got this in my fb PM box. 

Let's see - I showed you a video where people aren't getting ONE phone - they're getting SEVERAL. #oops

Then I mentioned people who maybe shouldn't be receiving entitlements and you say it's "racist" - why is that Stella? I didn't mention race, now did I? #oops

It just so happens that the people I know who abuse the system are white and as far as those at WalMart etc, could be white black or brown. But I'm a racist. Got it. Jim Crow and shit, right on.

You on the other hand are either a moron or a liar - I suspect both. Have fun with your like-minded buddies. Adios!

ROGER WINS AGAIN.

It's always my favorite when I get a PM on FB from someone because Roger made them unfriend me.

[hunter s.durden]

This Huff Post article says so, not sure how reliable they might be considered:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).

Ha...
Ha Haha...
AHH HA AHHAAAAHAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAhA OH GOD YES!!!!!0

A beauty of a find, and wrapped in a news article so I have an excuse to bring this up. Brilliant work.

[Cain]

The Koch billionaires, who fund many libtertarian ventures (including the Cato Think Tank, Reason Magazine and Freedomworks/the original Teabaggers) made their fortune off contracted work in the Soviet Union for Joe Stalin.

[hooplala]

This Huff Post article says so, not sure how reliable they might be considered:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).

Ha...
Ha Haha...
AHH HA AHHAAAAHAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAhA OH GOD YES!!!!!0

A beauty of a find, and wrapped in a news article so I have an excuse to bring this up. Brilliant work.

I do what I can.

But let's not forget that cape.

[Cain]

Von Hayek, who in his later years argued against social welfare programs such as Medicare...used Medicare when he could no longer afford private cover in the US, with the assistance of Charles Koch of the aforementioned family.

IHS vice president George Pearson (who later became a top Koch Industries executive) responded three weeks later, conceding that it was all but impossible to arrange affordable private medical insurance for Hayek in the United States. However, thanks to research by Yale Brozen, a libertarian economist at the University of Chicago, Pearson happily reported that "social security was passed at the University of Chicago while you [Hayek] were there in 1951. You had an option of being in the program. If you so elected at that time, you may be entitled to coverage now."

A few weeks later, the institute reported the good news: Professor Hayek had indeed opted into Social Security while he was teaching at Chicago and had paid into the program for ten years. He was eligible for benefits. On August 10, 1973, Koch wrote a letter appealing to Hayek to accept a shorter stay at the IHS, hard-selling Hayek on Social Security's retirement benefits, which Koch encouraged Hayek to draw on even outside America. He also assured Hayek that Medicare, which had been created in 1965 by the Social Security amendments as part of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs, would cover his medical needs.

Koch writes: "You may be interested in the information that we uncovered on the insurance and other benefits that would be available to you in this country. Since you have paid into the United States Social Security Program for a full forty quarters, you are entitled to Social Security payments while living anywhere in the Free World. Also, at any time you are in the United States, you are automatically entitled to hospital coverage."

Then, taking on the unlikely role of Social Security Administration customer service rep, Koch adds, "In order to be eligible for medical coverage you must apply during the registration period which is anytime from January 1 to March 31. For your further information, I am enclosing a pamphlet on Social Security."

Now, he did pay into the system, so there is an argument that he deserved it.  But then there is this:

Hayek devoted an entire chapter—titled "Social Security"—to denouncing the modern welfare state as a gateway to tyranny and moral decay. Ironically, one of Hayek's main objections to government programs like Social Security was the "fundamental absurdity" of using tax dollars to promote their benefits. In other words, Hayek publicly objected to the kind of brochure that Charles Koch sent him. In their private correspondence, however, we could find no objection to this "fundamental absurdity."

By the mid-1970s, Hayek had fully distanced himself from the modest benefits he'd originally conceded to in The Road to Serfdom. In his preface to the 1976 edition, he explained his "error": "I had not wholly freed myself from all the current interventionist superstitions, and in consequence still made various concessions which I now think unwarranted."

Publicly, in academia and in politics, in the media and in propaganda, these two major figures—one the sponsor, the other the mandarin—have been pushing Americans to do away with Social Security and Medicare for our own good: we will become freer, richer, healthier and better people.

But the exchange between Koch and Hayek exposes the bad-faith nature of their public arguments. In private, Koch expresses confidence in Social Security's ability to care for a clearly worried Hayek. He and his fellow IHS libertarians repeatedly assure Hayek that his government-funded coverage in the United States would be adequate for his medical needs.None of them—not Koch, Hayek or the other libertarians at the IHS—express anything remotely resembling shame or unease at such a betrayal of their public ideals and writings. Nowhere do they worry that by opting into and taking advantage of Social Security programs they might be hastening a socialist takeover of America. It's simply a given that Social Security and Medicare work, and therefore should be used.

[hunter s.durden]

The Koch billionaires, who fund many libtertarian ventures (including the Cato Think Tank, Reason Magazine and Freedomworks/the original Teabaggers) made their fortune off contracted work in the Soviet Union for Joe Stalin.

Jesus, man, did you put new batteries in your hypocrisy detector? OR did you just have all this saved up? 

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Unfriended. Just got this in my fb PM box. 

Let's see - I showed you a video where people aren't getting ONE phone - they're getting SEVERAL. #oops

Then I mentioned people who maybe shouldn't be receiving entitlements and you say it's "racist" - why is that Stella? I didn't mention race, now did I? #oops

It just so happens that the people I know who abuse the system are white and as far as those at WalMart etc, could be white black or brown. But I'm a racist. Got it. Jim Crow and shit, right on.

You on the other hand are either a moron or a liar - I suspect both. Have fun with your like-minded buddies. Adios!

ROGER WINS AGAIN.

It's always my favorite when I get a PM on FB from someone because Roger made them unfriend me.

Those Mind Laz0rz can do ALL KINDS of things, can't they? 

This is the video he was talking about. It's a FOX News segment put up by this guy.

I thought this part of the wikipedia article was interesting:

Voter Caging

In October 2004, while Griffin was Research Director and Deputy Communications Director for President Bush's reelection campaign, BBC Newsnight released an email (received through an error by the sender) from Tim Griffin to other high-ranking officials of the RNC with the subject line "Re: caging." The email contained a list of 70,000 Floridians registered to vote. The list contained primarily African-American and Hispanic voters from Democratic precincts. The addresses of the individuals in the spreadsheet were primarily homeless shelters and those of deployed, active-duty military personnel. The RNC subsequently sent first-class letters to these potential voters marked "Do Not Forward" and the letters themselves contained instructions to return the letter to ensure proper voting registration. If the letters were not returned, the corresponding voter was removed from the voter registration roll, under the guise of "inconsistent registration." However, the purpose of this mail-scheme (called "voter-caging") was to remove members of the target demographic (in this case, African-Americans, Hispanics and homeless people) for partisan purposes.

Voter-caging, if used for the purpose of disenfranchising racial or ethnic demographics, is a Federal crime, a violation of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. While the incident in question was investigated, however tepidly, by the U.S. House of Representatives, it was never investigated by federal authorities with jurisdiction over violations of federal law. Griffin claims the whole incident to be false, despite the emails delivered from his email address.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

The Koch billionaires, who fund many libtertarian ventures (including the Cato Think Tank, Reason Magazine and Freedomworks/the original Teabaggers) made their fortune off contracted work in the Soviet Union for Joe Stalin.

Jesus, man, did you put new batteries in your hypocrisy detector? OR did you just have all this saved up?

Cain's got a LOT saved up. 

[Cain]

It's true - I save what I think might be useful future information, to unleash when needed.

Most of this stuff comes from the work of Mark Ames - the former eXile editor who was forced to leave Russia and who outed the Tea Party as being an astroturfed movement.  Since then, he's had a target painted on him by Koch affiliates, so he's been pushing back just as hard.