Author Topic: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...  (Read 25466 times)

Cain

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #180 on: July 08, 2014, 03:53:17 pm »
Given the pisspoor methodology of the NSPCC investigation into Savile, which mostly consisted of "someone (who I can't name) once told me that their sister's cousin's best friend's classmate was once groped by Jimmy Savile in a Maggie Thatcher mask at Buckingham Palace...sometime in the 80s", I had rather higher hopes for this one. 

Oh well.

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #181 on: July 14, 2014, 07:11:13 am »
Seems the best place for this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28282050

Quote
Pope Francis has been quoted as saying that reliable data indicates that "about 2%" of clergy in the Catholic Church are paedophiles.

The Pope said that abuse of children was like "leprosy" infecting the Church, according to the Italian La Repubblica newspaper.

He vowed to "confront it with the severity it demands".

But a Vatican spokesman said the quotes in the newspaper did not correspond to Pope Francis's exact words.

The BBC's David Willey in Rome says there is often a studied ambiguity in Pope Francis' off-the-cuff statements.

Quote
In the interview, Pope Francis was quoted as saying that the 2% estimate came from advisers. It would represent around 8,000 priests out of a global number of about 414,000.

"Among the 2% who are paedophiles are priests, bishops and cardinals. Others, more numerous, know but keep quiet. They punish without giving the reason," Pope Francis was quoted as saying.

"I find this state of affairs intolerable," he went on.
Quote
Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi denied that Pope Francis had said that there were cardinals who were paedophiles.

There's a degree of dispute over the exact words used, but the sentiment seems sound. The "1 in 50" headline will get quite a bit of play and rightly so.

Lombardi seems to have the job of deflecting suspicion away from the upper ranks and spinning whatever this Pope says into something generally more palatable for the clergy and general public. £5 says he knows where a lot of bodies are buried. £10 says he's dug more than a couple of holes of his own.
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Cain

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #182 on: July 14, 2014, 10:05:37 am »
Content advisory. Some discussion of physical abuse ahead (I've stripped the descriptions of sexual abuse from the descriptions).

Some quotes from David Yallop's The Power and the Glory:

Quote
The secret system that protects the clerical sex abuser was functioning effectively as far back at least as the early part of the seventeenth century when the founder of the Piarist Order, Father Joseph Calasanz, suppressed the sexual abuse of children by his priests from becoming public knowledge. One such paedophile, Father Stefano Cherubini, the member of a well-connected Vatican family, was so successful at covering up his crimes he even succeeded in becoming head of the Order. It took fifteen years of complaints against him and other senior members of the Order before action was taken by Pope Innocent X and the Order was temporarily closed down. As historian Karen Liebreich, in Fallen Order shows, the seventeenth-century secret system had a very modern ring, including ‘promotion for avoidance’ – elevate the abuser away from his victims.

Quote
Recently yet another secret Vatican document concerning the crime of solicitation has surfaced. The document, Instructions on the Manner of Proceeding in Cases of Solicitation, deals with the crime of a priest attempting to procure sexual favours from an individual whose confession he is hearing. It was published by the Prefect of the Holy Office, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, with the approval of the then Pope, John XXIII, in March 1962. The document has never been made available to the general public. The distribution list was confined to ‘Patriarchs, Archbishops, Bishops and Other Diocesan Ordinaries’. Among those receiving a copy would have been the newly promoted Bishop of Cracow, Karol Wojtyla.

It deals with the secret trial arrangements of any cleric charged with the offence. The document has recently been described by lawyers as ‘a blueprint for deception and concealment’ while apologists have argued that as the Sacrament of Penance is protected by a shroud of absolute secrecy, the procedures for dealing with this ‘ecclesiastical’ crime also invoke secrecy, putting the offender above the criminal law of the land. This was precisely the position that the Vatican has taken for many centuries on all acts of clerical paedophilia perpetrated in or out of the confessional box.

The 1962 Holy Office instructions for ‘addressing this unspeakable crime’ go to remarkable lengths to ensure total secrecy. The victim must lodge a complaint within ‘thirty days’ of the crime. Failure to do so will mean the victim’s automatic excommunication. As the victim was often a young child, that particular directive beggars belief. The alleged perpetrator was able to ‘be transferred to another assignment unless the Ordinary of the place has forbidden it’. Both the perpetrator and the victim are ordered to observe ‘perpetual silence’, under pain of excommunication. Again an element of the secret system has come into play. ‘The oath of keeping the secret must be given in these cases also by the accusers or those denouncing the priest and the witnesses.’ Chapter Five of the document, entitled ‘The Worst Crime’, states ‘by the name of the worst crime is understood at this point evidence of any obscene, external deed, gravely sinful act, perpetrated by a cleric or attempted with a person of his own sex or attempted by him with youths of either sex or with brute animals (bestiality)’.

Quote
In St Ninian’s the monks varied the regular beatings, rapes and the gamut of sexual abuses of the boys with their own version of torture and brutality. An electric generator was set up in the boot room where boys were forced to hold onto the bare wires leading from the machine and receive a series of electric shocks. The children were also subjected to whippings with a riding crop with the ends tied to cause greater pain.

Christopher Fearns, a social worker, recalled, ‘I was beaten with the riding crop two or three times a week for four years. They told us they’d whip the Devil out of us. I was battered so many times on my head and ears I cannot hear a thing on my left side, and I’ve undergone extensive surgery because of it.’

To date just three people have been brought to trial; all were found guilty. Among the ten charges that were proved against Brother Benedict were assault, forcing children to eat their own vomit and breaking a boy’s arm. The three men were given token sentences of two years’ imprisonment. Brother Benedict appealed and was granted bail. More than a year later his appeal has yet to be heard and he walks freely among his fellow citizens.

Jimmy Boyle, formerly the most feared man in Scotland, recalled his years in another De La Salle school, St John’s in Springboig: ‘Even today I can still hear the sounds of breaking bones as a monk deliberately smashed a child’s leg to smithereens. Or footsteps in the night that heralded yet another horrific rape of a terrified, crying child.’

Quote
Appalling abuse by the Christian Brothers has been matched by cruelty from the Poor Sisters of Nazareth or the Daughters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul or the Sisters of Mercy. For more than 100 years there were Nazareth homes all over the United Kingdom, Australia, South Africa, the United States and Ireland.

From the mid-nineteenth century to recent times ‘Nazareth homes’ cared for the young and the old. The orphanages were run by nuns from the order of the Sisters of Mercy. Violent degradation and thrashings were a daily event. The children woke up to the screams of other children and to the familiar sound of the strap. In 1965 Helen Cusiter was eight years of age when her mother disappeared and she was taken, along with her five brothers, to the Nazareth House in Aberdeen. In 2004 at the age of forty-seven, after a chance meeting with one of her childhood tormentors, Helen became one of over five hundred former residents to bring an action against the Sisters.

Her recall of what she had endured was corroborated by other former inmates who had not met for a lifetime. It included a particular incident with Sister Alphonso who had come looking for her while Helen had been playing on the swings.

‘She took me off by the hair, twisted me round and threw me against the church wall. She broke all my front teeth, my face was a mashed mess, the other kids were all screaming.’ Helen Howie, one of those screaming children, remembers the blood pouring from Helen’s face: ‘Sister Alphonso didn’t use leather straps, she used her fists, she had such strength.’

When the dentist queried the extensive bruising on the eight year old’s face he was told, ‘She fell.’ Sister Aphonso was convicted on four charges of cruel and unnatural treatment. Because of her age she was merely admonished rather than imprisoned. There are all too many similar testimonies from hundreds of damaged people. Many sought not compensation but just the opportunity of being heard, of having the pain they still felt acknowledged. The Poor Sisters are no longer poor. They have approaching £200 million in their bank and have eventually dropped the ‘Poor’ from their title. There is now an international campaign to bring the Order to the bar of justice. It will be an uphill struggle with the insurance companies combining with a number of the bishops to ward off the attack.

Quote
In 1966 at the age of nine, Willie was the oldest of ten children, living in a caravan without sanitation or running water. It was his responsibility to help to feed the family. His father, a tinsmith confronting a shrinking market with the advent of long-life kitchen utensils, needed all the help he could get. Willie was caught stealing piglets and sentenced to six years in Letterfrack, an industrial school in the west of Ireland, described by survivors as ‘a hell on earth’. Inmates suffered physical, mental and sexual abuse. Willie was treated brutally. In 1970, by now thirteen, a few days before he was due home for a precious two-week holiday, Willie was continously beaten about the head. Survivors have recently testified that one of the Christian Brothers was continuously beating Willie’s head with a bunch of keys; others remember him using a pole. At home Willie complained of severe headaches, then he suffered a fit, went into a coma and died. Doctors at St Luke’s Hospital in Kilkenny said he had died of meningitis.

And some figures

Quote
It was subsequently revealed that in New Zealand in early 1991 six Roman Catholic dioceses had confirmed thirty-eight cases of sexual abuse by priests and brothers, within two years of a complaints procedure being set up: a great many more were in the pipeline including complaints of abuse that reached back fifty years to the 1940s. For most of that period the Catholic population of New Zealand was less than 500,000, with only around 500 priests: the confirmed cases indicated a historic average of some seven per cent of priests being sex abusers.

Quote
The Catholic psychotherapist Wunibald Müller, a man with decades of experience in the treatment of priests with psychological and psychiatric problems, has estimated that there is a minimum of two per cent of all priests in Germany with a predisposition to paedophilia, giving a national figure of between 250 and 300. Paedophiles are invariably serial offenders and therefore the number of children at very real risk in Germany today, even by the most conservative of estimates, is somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000. The actual figure is undoubtedly much higher. Müller’s estimate was based on the evidence that has been made available to him through clinical study of the general German population. But the extraordinary efficiency of the German application of the secret system has for decades dramatically suppressed the abnormal incidence of sexual abuse among the clerical population. Consequently Müller’s estimates are only around half of comparable estimates for other countries, notably the USA. His figure is disturbingly low.

Quote
In the United States during the fifteen years after the Gauthe case of 1985/86, over 1,200 paedophile priests were exposed. In view of the fact that there have continued to be weekly if not daily exposures, new civil claims and continuous fresh allegations, the actual total continues to move in the United States inexorably towards 3,000 paedophiles or five per cent of the Roman Catholic priesthood. Even those estimates may prove to be far too low when more exhaustive research has been completed. If the evidence from the Indiana diocese of Lafayette was to be replicated across the United States, all of the previous estimates would have to be rewritten. In a diocese of just seventy-five active priests, by early 1997 it had been established that at least sixteen per cent were guilty of a wide range of sexual abuses.

Quote
From 1978 until April 2002 the Pope had deliberately and studiously avoided any public references to the global epidemic of sexual abuse by his priests and members of Catholic orders, apart from a few oblique comments. He had talked in March 2002 of ‘a dark shadow of suspicion’ that had been cast over priests ‘by some of our brothers who have betrayed the grace of ordination’ and have succumbed to the ‘most grievous forms of the mystery of evil at work in the world’. He could not quite bring himself to utter the word paedophilia.

Note all figures are from 2005 or so, when the book was published.

I admire the current Pope for his stand against paedophilia in the Church and against the corruption of Vatican politics by money laundering and "masonic lodges"*, but he has to be careful as hell.  The "secret system" endures, especially in southern Europe.  He can't trust people inside the Vatican to help him.  And he's treading ground that at least one previous Pope has gone down...that Pope, you may recall, did not last very long in his position.  30 days, to be exact.

*Which may all be interconnected.  While somewhat hard to credit, to put it mildly, a former Catholic priest by the name of Malachi Martin has some interesting things to say on this topic:

Quote from: Peter Levenda, Sinister Forces Book 3: The Manson Secret
While the Catholic Church has been officially silent on the matter of Malachi Martin, his books have been popular among a certain segment of the Catholic population, who believe that there is an evil, Satanic element within the Vatican that has hijacked the Church for its own purposes. Martin was writing about this years before revelations exploded about the Vatican banking scandals, the Masonic P-2 society infiltration of the Vatican as high as cardinal level, and the alleged murder of Pope John Paul I after only thirty days as Pontiff. Thus, it is entirely possible that there are at least two factions within the Church, and that one faction supported Martin’s researches and that another firmly opposed them. Martin also alleged that there existed within the Church something he called the “Superforce,” which was the name he gave to the cabal of evildoers within the Vatican that perpetrated not only political and financial crimes, but which was also involved in pedophilia and other sexual scandals, some under the guise of a satanic cult of sex abusers. Recent revelations concerning the widespread cover up of pedophilia and other forms of sexual abuse within the Church—a cover up that begins at the highest levels of the Vatican bureaucracy—seem to support Martin’s contentions, particularly as, in some cases, this abuse was connected with vaguely ritualistic settings and ceremonies.

Martin isn't a complete crank, it should be noted.  As Yallop notes, when detailing the lie of how Pope John Paul II took credit for redefining the Vatican's relationship with Jews:

Quote
Claims have also been made that he was the leading author of the final declaration. In just fifteen lengthy sentences, Nostra Aetate was a groundbreaking document launching a movement to reverse 2,000 years of hatred, oppression, vilification and annihilation of Jews by Catholics in the name of God. But it owes nothing to Karol Wojtyla for its existence. Just as the stories of Wojtyla’s wartime dramatic interventions to save Jewish lives are fantasies piled on myths so the claims that have been made on behalf of Wojtyla regarding his input and influence on the creation of this historic declaration are without foundation.

The credit for this historic document should be given in particular to two men, the Jesuit Cardinal Bea and Father Malachi Martin who had doctorates in Semitic languages, archaeology and Oriental history and was destined to become a highly controversial author. Working closely with Cardinal Bea, Martin drafted the document, which exonerated the Jews from culpability in the execution of Jesus Christ. Father Martin received overwhelming if not unanimous approval from the Vatican Council and many accolades from around the world.

So there may well be something in his allegations.

Junkenstein

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #183 on: July 14, 2014, 10:54:24 am »
Another one for the list then. Sinister forces is already on it but should really be moved up. Between that and the other thread here they're clearly worth a read.

From the second quote:
Quote
The victim must lodge a complaint within ‘thirty days’ of the crime. Failure to do so will mean the victim’s automatic excommunication. As the victim was often a young child, that particular directive beggars belief. The alleged perpetrator was able to ‘be transferred to another assignment unless the Ordinary of the place has forbidden it’. Both the perpetrator and the victim are ordered to observe ‘perpetual silence’, under pain of excommunication.

There's so much horror there it's difficult to quantify it. There's no logical way this makes sense unless you're trying to explicitly protect the accused over the victims. Adding the excommunication angle is just stunning for a variety of reasons. The first one that mainly comes to mind is how well ingrained the Catholic world view gets, well, beaten mainly, into folk so that carries serious heft.

As far as the numbers go, it seems 2% is rather optimistic, 4-6% would seem to be closer from what the other sources quoted indicate. I wonder if anyone's going to have the decency to give the Pope these facts and let him know the problem seems to be at least twice as bad as he thinks.

It doesn't look good for Lombardi either. If that "Promotion for avoidance" policy is accurate, the chances of these people being cardinals or holding a range of senior positions seems likely. At least we can be confident that any such people in such positions will obviously be fully co-operative with any investigation.

So, problems ahoy for the next decade at least.

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #184 on: July 14, 2014, 10:58:33 am »
The Irish Woman who met him over the weekend was very happy with what he had to say.

So he said "2% of priests are pedophiles", the Vatican steps in saying she misheard and now she is pissed off saying that was exactly what he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0714/630600-pope/
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #185 on: July 14, 2014, 11:10:25 am »
I have to assume that the spokesman in question is Lombardi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federico_Lombardi

Quote
In an editorial for "Octava Dies", a weekly program of the Vatican Television Center, he criticized statements made by Bishop Richard Williamson denying the extent of the Holocaust.[5] Lombardi was later criticized himself by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos over the problems in communication revealed during the affair.[6]

Lombardi said that the Pope had never been a member of the Hitler Youth, but journalists quickly pointed out to him that Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope, had admitted this himself in the 1997 book Salt of the Earth.[7]

In 2009 Lombardi said that in "cases like Pope Benedict XVI’s Regensburg discourse, the bishop Williamson affair, or the controversy over Pope Benedict XVI’s statements regarding condoms and the spread of HIV and AIDS in Africa ... once the first wave of criticism had passed, people were able to do some real hard thinking ... subsequent reflections were serious, penetrating and well-argued."[8]

In September 2012, Lombardi released a second statement on the 2012 diplomatic missions attacks which clearly condemned mob violence; his first statement had been criticized by Catholic bloggers for omitting to condemn the violence, and for emphasizing primarily on the religious feelings of offended Muslims.[9]

Quote
Father Federico Lombardi, S.J. (born 29 August 1942[1]) is an Italian Catholic priest and the current director of the Holy See Press Office.

In short, he's their spin doctor.

Quote
Upon assuming the directorate, Lombardi said he would not be a papal "spokesman" since he believes Benedict XVI did not need an interpreter, saying, "I don't think my role is to explain the Pope's thinking or explain the things that he already states in an extraordinarily clear and rich way.

Clearly, this pope isn't expressing himself correctly.

If there was ever a suitable candidate for rubber hose interrogations, it's this guy. £20 says he can not only say where the bodies are buried, but who buried them, when they were buried and where they bought the spade to do the digging.
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #186 on: July 14, 2014, 11:28:34 am »
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #187 on: July 14, 2014, 12:43:11 pm »
Sigh:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28295282

Quote
Retired judge Baroness Butler-Sloss has stepped down as head of a probe into child sex abuse saying she was "not the right person" for the job.

Downing Street said "it was entirely her decision" and a new chair would be appointed within days.

Lady Butler-Sloss has been under pressure to quit from MPs and victims concerned about her family links.

Her late brother, Sir Michael Havers, was attorney general in the 1980s

Quote
Lady Butler-Sloss said she "did not sufficiently consider" whether her family links would cause difficulties in the inquiry.

Less than a week. I'd be surprised if she didn't have form for such behaviour.

Taking bets on the suitability of the next appointed person. I've got a fiver on "Equally unsuitable" and a quid on "Freddy Starr".
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #188 on: July 14, 2014, 11:04:03 pm »
Fucking hell.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Junkenstein

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #189 on: July 15, 2014, 07:22:20 am »
Fucking hell.

Something of an understatement.

It's bubbling now, but I think the boil is a long way off still. So far, the convictions and investigations are still quite closely contained and focused. I imagine everyone was happy enough to throw Gary Glitter and Rolf under the bus, but when the questions lead to younger or more influential people progress stops/slows dramatically.

What I would suspect is that if around 4-6% of the priesthood have had some kind of involvement with abuse, I find no reason not to assume that this figure holds good in other professions. This also makes me very suspicious of anyone shouting for leniency for historic crimes, particularly when they've not already been implicated in some way.

The other angle is the actual prosecutions. Freddy Starr walked because essentially it was not economically viable to proceed. They were apparently confident in gaining one conviction but the others less so, so drop everything. Poor man has suffered enough.


Oddly enough, Madeline Mcann tales are back in vogue. It would seem that a focus on a perpetually missing young white girl is somehow more important than most other news.
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #190 on: July 15, 2014, 07:48:20 am »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28283480

Quote
Fresh allegations of child sex abuse against the Church of England (CofE) are likely to surface, the Archbishop of Canterbury has warned.

The Most Rev Justin Welby said he was braced for an abuse inquiry to reveal "bad stories" about the Church.

Quote
Asked if he was prepared for more "bad stories" of child abuse within the establishment, the archbishop told the BBC: "I would love to say there weren't, but I expect there are. There are in almost every institution in this land.

It's rather oddly worded and pre-emptive. It's also not making me think my above post is wrong.
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #191 on: July 15, 2014, 09:39:32 am »
In the case of Freddie Starr, well, I can understand why Stephen Fry was angry.  I don't have any idea of the validity of the charges against him, but the proceedings have clearly wrecked the man.  He was a bumbling wreck in that press conference his solicitor put on.

Of course, this is exactly the press culture we demanded.  Idolizing of celebrity, creepy fetishization of children and vicious, snarling condemnation from atop towers of righteous fury.  It's no surprise we ended up where we are, really.

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #192 on: July 15, 2014, 11:09:01 am »
Another one for the list then. Sinister forces is already on it but should really be moved up. Between that and the other thread here they're clearly worth a read.

From the second quote:
Quote
The victim must lodge a complaint within ‘thirty days’ of the crime. Failure to do so will mean the victim’s automatic excommunication. As the victim was often a young child, that particular directive beggars belief. The alleged perpetrator was able to ‘be transferred to another assignment unless the Ordinary of the place has forbidden it’. Both the perpetrator and the victim are ordered to observe ‘perpetual silence’, under pain of excommunication.

There's so much horror there it's difficult to quantify it. There's no logical way this makes sense unless you're trying to explicitly protect the accused over the victims. Adding the excommunication angle is just stunning for a variety of reasons. The first one that mainly comes to mind is how well ingrained the Catholic world view gets, well, beaten mainly, into folk so that carries serious heft.

As far as the numbers go, it seems 2% is rather optimistic, 4-6% would seem to be closer from what the other sources quoted indicate. I wonder if anyone's going to have the decency to give the Pope these facts and let him know the problem seems to be at least twice as bad as he thinks.

It doesn't look good for Lombardi either. If that "Promotion for avoidance" policy is accurate, the chances of these people being cardinals or holding a range of senior positions seems likely. At least we can be confident that any such people in such positions will obviously be fully co-operative with any investigation.

So, problems ahoy for the next decade at least.

Is it reasonable to expect that protecting the image and integrity of the church would be pretty much top of their list of priorities?

Given that (comparatively?) a whole bunch of servants ordained by God, to carry out his work on earth turn out to be kiddie fiddlers, how does this paint the church or, for that matter, god himself?

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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #193 on: July 15, 2014, 11:26:10 am »
In the case of Freddie Starr, well, I can understand why Stephen Fry was angry.  I don't have any idea of the validity of the charges against him, but the proceedings have clearly wrecked the man.  He was a bumbling wreck in that press conference his solicitor put on.

Of course, this is exactly the press culture we demanded.  Idolizing of celebrity, creepy fetishization of children and vicious, snarling condemnation from atop towers of righteous fury.  It's no surprise we ended up where we are, really.

As I understand it, Fry is mainly angry that the culture of "Guilty once accused" is still pretty strong. Which is reasonable enough. The UK press certainly spends enough time condemning everything not totally aligned with it.

That said, I believe the case against Starr had a fair chance of success based on statements from prosecutors. There's a lot of "What's in the public interest" kind of shit associated with this. I'm fairly sure someone's made the call at some point that Freddy Starr is living his own punishment as he is Freddy Starr.

Quote
Is it reasonable to expect that protecting the image and integrity of the church would be pretty much top of their list of priorities?

I would expect that exact line to be part of Lombardi's job description. Particularly the "image" part.
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Re: Brit Spags! So Jim fixed it...
« Reply #194 on: July 16, 2014, 10:51:50 am »
Daily "Jesus fucking christ" link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28326128

Quote
More than 650 suspected paedophiles have been arrested as part of a six-month operation targeting people accessing child abuse images online.

The National Crime Agency (NCA) said the 660 arrested included doctors, teachers, scout leaders, care workers and former police officers.

More than 400 children have been protected as a result, the agency said.

Arrests were made across the UK and the majority of those held had no previous contact with police.

The NCA said 39 were of those arrested are registered sex offenders.

Charges already brought range from possessing indecent images of children to serious sexual assault.

The NCA stressed that none of those arrested is a serving or former MP or member of the Government.

Behold the final word in the argument in UK communications monitoring. That bill has already flown through the usual process and anyone who dares decry it will be directed to this and accused of sympathising with paedophiles.

It'd almost be funny if it wasn't tragic. Terrorists and drug dealers not scary enough for you? "Well if we don't have X we won't be able to properly protect your kids"

You can't help but wonder about the bold. It seems an odd thing to emphasise to me. Last week there was some discontent over a missing dossier which apparently implicated MP's and other such government figures. Making a point about how none of them are involved seems like a rather politically motivated statement.

 
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.