Police cameras

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I see, you two (and I think ECH too) seem to want to start up another pissing match with me, but call it Holiday Spirit, jadedness, or simply being in a place where I simply don't give a fuck, I am not going to indulge you guys. I am simply sharing what I've observed andmy opinion that I think the overly-cynical "the police are all corrupt" viewpoint is, well, overly cynical.  Take it or leave it, but I'm not going to play stupid games with you guys.  Go find a noob to bludgeon to get your hate out.

And just who said "the police are all corrupt"?

Why, Roger, it was you, me, and ECH. We've said nothing but that since the beginning of the thread, don't you remember?


Oh wait.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

BREAKING NEWS: Guy who works with cops declares that police racism and corruption are just a myth; millions of black people heave a collective sigh of relief. 

Then who has been shooting people in the back of squad cars?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I see, you two (and I think ECH too) seem to want to start up another pissing match with me, but call it Holiday Spirit, jadedness, or simply being in a place where I simply don't give a fuck, I am not going to indulge you guys. I am simply sharing what I've observed andmy opinion that I think the overly-cynical "the police are all corrupt" viewpoint is, well, overly cynical.  Take it or leave it, but I'm not going to play stupid games with you guys.  Go find a noob to bludgeon to get your hate out.

And just who said "the police are all corrupt"?

Why, Roger, it was you, me, and ECH. We've said nothing but that since the beginning of the thread, don't you remember?


Oh wait.

I am old; my memory cannot be trusted in these matters.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

BREAKING NEWS: Guy who works with cops declares that police racism and corruption are just a myth; millions of black people heave a collective sigh of relief. 

Then who has been shooting people in the back of squad cars?

You know criminals; things just happen. It's probably the drugs.

[AFK]

I'm glad I've been able to give you two the opportunity to get your jollies off this morning.  I'll be sending you each an invoice for my services.   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

So we really don't need the police? At all? Zero effect on crime whatsoever? Can't help feeling just a tad sceptical. I'm pretty sure there's at least a couple of people in the world, who're in jail and deserve to be because the police caught them doing something bad. Maybe I'm just being naive and drinking Kool Aid, tho.

So is the whole justice system a waste of time then? I mean with no one to investigate, capture and bring to trial, I don't suppose there's any point having courts and prisons and shit?

Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I said. 

No, I'm not fucking with you. Just trying to get my head around what yours and ECH's argument is. I'm the first one to say the whole shit needs fixed. First time I got hit by a copper was when I was about 13 or 14 but I still think the net result is positive, ie they do (slightly) more good than harm. If you think this is not the case then surely you're in favour of a no coppers scenario, which strikes me as bizarrs? Like I said - not fucking with you - just trying to work out what your position actually is.

[LMNO]

I'm not speaking for Nigel or ECH, but I think it's kind of like water: If you don't drink any, you will die; and if you drink to much... you will die. 

The the problem being we live in a fear-based society where the probablities of danger and crime being blown completely out of proportion, and politicians constantly running on "tough on crime" platforms, which when combined allow the police force to swell to potentially harmful levels.

[Cain]

Do police deter crime?

Depends what you mean by crime.  I suspect crimes like muggings, burgalry, car theft and similar can be deterred by regular patrols and CCTV.

But what about rape?  Murder?  As a rule, police aren't so helpful when it comes to premeditated crimes.

As such, a police presence is only going to be helpful up to a point.  Beyond that, social factors are going to play an increasingly large role.  The UK keeps cutting police numbers, for example, and yet crime keeps on dropping.  Crime is lower now than at any point in the last 20 years, and while part of that has to do with people not having anything worth nicking anymore, it's also because, as a society, we have better prevention measures and safety nets so people don't turn to crime in the first place.

The US police numbers, by contrast with the UK, seem to increase year on year, along with their budgets.  Local police offices have more military hardware than some third world countries, including attack helicoptors, tanks and anti-aircraft missiles.  One US police department has an intelligence arm so large and well developed it is considered an arm of the CIA and one of the USA's 19 intelligence agencies (Bloomberg's private army, aka the NYPD).  Yet they don't actually seem to do much, except shoot people for no good reason, plant drugs on minority suspects, taze children and carry out paramilitary raids on the wrong houses.

In that situation, I would find myself erring on the side of "less police is better" as well.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Good point and something I hadn't considered. The US is a vastly different creature I guess. Our filth generally concern themselves with catching villains and haven't really been used as Sturmtruppen since Thatcher decided the miners needed sorted out, unless you count stomping on anti-capitalist protesters (which I don't - twats were clearly asking for it)

[AFK]

It really isn't an accurate portrayal as far as I'm concerned.  This isn't the wild west anymore.  Most police officers become police officers to do the right thing.  To serve and protect.  Unfortunately, the actions of a minority have been built up into legend to the point where your lazy layman just assumes they're all bad guys.  It just isn't true.

[Cain]

Really?  Because according to a shiny United Nations Human Rights Committee report I have here, the War on Terror has "created a generalized climate of impunity for law enforcement officers, and contributed to the erosion of what few accountability mechanisms exist for civilian control over law enforcement agencies. As a result, police brutality and abuse persist unabated and undeterred across the country."

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/ngos/usa/USHRN15.pdf

[LMNO]

It really isn't an accurate portrayal as far as I'm concerned.  This isn't the wild west anymore.  Most police officers become police officers to do the right thing.  To serve and protect.  Unfortunately, the actions of a minority have been built up into legend to the point where your lazy layman just assumes they're all bad guys.  It just isn't true.

No one is asserting this.  You've claimed this several times, and several times you've been corrected.  You appear to be arguing against a position no one else here is holding. 

[East Coast Hustle]

Cain, while I appreciate the data (as do several others I would assume), we both know RWHN will refuse to address it and pretend it doesn't exist since it doesn't fit his narrative. After all, his experiences with a handful of cops in rural Maine are clearly weightier evidence than a UNHRC report.

tl;dr version:

[AFK]

Really?


"Yet they don't actually seem to do much, except shoot people for no good reason, plant drugs on minority suspects, taze children and carry out paramilitary raids on the wrong houses."


That argument was just made by Cain, which to me, comes across precisely as they are all bad guys, or at best, they are all useless.  I know that's bullshit.