Shooting at CT Elementary School. WTF AMERICA?!

[Don Coyote]

And we can just jump in screech about random talking points without bothering to make sense?

Please to look at the last 25 pages.

Which has been chock full of screeching.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

Yep.

Or "Listen up, while I tell you how to think for yourself/be an individualist."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And we can just jump in screech about random talking points without bothering to make sense?

Please to look at the last 25 pages.

Which has been chock full of screeching.

Yep.  My mistake, back on page 24, was to stop screeching and try to post something that might explain some of the mindset that leads to guns dichotomy in the USA.

Rest assured, I won't be doing that again, anytime soon.  I basically scooped the 3 posts up and retooled them, and I'll use them at Scrubgenius.  They sure as fuck aren't worth a damn here.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

Yep.  It particularly doesn't fly in "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska (Alty seems to be an exception).  Or Texas, for that matter.

But you are correct.  While certain regions may have it worse than others, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT.

And I could see how the left fringe would really, really fall for it, just as much as the teabaggers.

"The sheeple don't understand."
\

Exactly... and as the Common Walls project existed to try to expound upon, a divided population is an easy population to control and manipulate. The "Rugged Individualism" meme is inherently divisive.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

Yep.  It particularly doesn't fly in "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska (Alty seems to be an exception).  Or Texas, for that matter.

But you are correct.  While certain regions may have it worse than others, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT.

And I could see how the left fringe would really, really fall for it, just as much as the teabaggers.

"The sheeple don't understand."
\

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

Yes, precisely. 

And isn't it ironic that the gun-control issue is dividing people over this?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Exactly... and as the Common Walls project existed to try to expound upon, a divided population is an easy population to control and manipulate. The "Rugged Individualism" meme is inherently divisive.

DING!  Post of the fucking year.  That's a connection I hadn't made.

We can do something with this.

[Don Coyote]

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

Yep.

Or "Listen up, while I tell you how to think for yourself/be an individualist."

"You need this gas guzzling, 24 inches lifted, all time 4 wheel drive, with reclining bucket leather seats, AC, MP3, Bluetooth  to show the world how much of a rugged individualist you are. Nothing says rugged and individual like owning the same high priced crap as everyone else."

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Exactly... and as the Common Walls project existed to try to expound upon, a divided population is an easy population to control and manipulate. The "Rugged Individualism" meme is inherently divisive.

DING!  Post of the fucking year.  That's a connection I hadn't made.

We can do something with this.

Awesome, I think it's go time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And isn't it ironic that the gun-control issue is dividing people over this?

Sure.  Granted, here, it has a few years of festering butthurt helping it along (GOOD THING WE'RE NOT LIKE THOSE SHEEPLE GRAYFACES), but yes.  Even here, there was nothing but fucking talking points on all sides.

In this, we - PD - have failed as Discordians.

[Don Coyote]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

Yep.  It particularly doesn't fly in "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska (Alty seems to be an exception).  Or Texas, for that matter.

But you are correct.  While certain regions may have it worse than others, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT.

And I could see how the left fringe would really, really fall for it, just as much as the teabaggers.

"The sheeple don't understand."
\

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

Yes, precisely. 

And isn't it ironic that the gun-control issue is dividing people over this?

See I thought I had mentioned it, but maybe I just thought it without vomiting it out.

No I got caught up in trying to prove how wrong other people were.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"You need this gas guzzling, 24 inches lifted, all time 4 wheel drive, with reclining bucket leather seats, AC, MP3, Bluetooth  to show the world how much of a rugged individualist you are. Nothing says rugged and individual like owning the same high priced crap as everyone else."

How about:

"Boy, it's a good thing we all think for ourselves here in Discordia.  We're so good at it that vigilance is not necessary."

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What's especially funny is that when I made a series of posts undermining my own earlier arguments, people COULD NOT SEE THE POSTS.

Too much ouch on the old 2d circuit.

[LMNO]

Exactly... and as the Common Walls project existed to try to expound upon, a divided population is an easy population to control and manipulate. The "Rugged Individualism" meme is inherently divisive.

DING!  Post of the fucking year.  That's a connection I hadn't made.

We can do something with this.

I was just about to say something similar.

Also, it's funny there's a dichotomy between the pro-healthcare stance around here, the pro-takes-a-villiage mentality expressed, even a pro-Project-Mayhem-no-precious-snowflake-or-unicorn memeswamp... and the now-rearing "individuality" idea.

Plus, far too many hyphens.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

Yep.

Or "Listen up, while I tell you how to think for yourself/be an individualist."

"You need this gas guzzling, 24 inches lifted, all time 4 wheel drive, with reclining bucket leather seats, AC, MP3, Bluetooth  to show the world how much of a rugged individualist you are. Nothing says rugged and individual like owning the same high priced crap as everyone else."

Oh, bingo! And while looking for an ad I saw once that completely exemplified this principle, I ran across this: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4622146?uid=3739856&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101507425821

I'm going to have to look that up in the PSU library so I can read the whole thing, but the abstract looks excellent.

[Pæs]

GET OUT OF MY SELF-CONSISTENT WORLDVIEW, YOU MANIAC.