Shooting at CT Elementary School. WTF AMERICA?!

[Don Coyote]

Faust, I don't know how many military service members you know, but I know quite a few that would be more than willing to be good little storm troopers and go along with any kind of imposition of martial law. I know people that see nothing wrong with spraying military grade CS into the eyes of restrained citizens. This is in addition to the kinds of abuses that people are willing to go along with AND inflict on other citizens in the name of "public safety", or the fact that Roger and others have first hand witnessed or dealt with the corrupt horror that is civilian law enforcement.
It may just be that I am product of my culture, except growing up I was forbidden from playing with anything resembling a gun or from watching violent media or anything that glorified war, or gun use. It may be a product of 5 years in the US Army, except I discharge a firearm only once ever 6 months or so, and picked a support job in the Army. It might even be because I study and practice ancient ways of killing people for fun, but then again the most deadly weapon I own is a tomahawk, which is just a glorified camp axe. I don't even own a firearm.
I might just be defending my and fellow citizen's right to bear arms because it is a clause attached to an ancient piece of paper that has been systemically trampled on.
Maybe if it wasn't there, I wouldn't care, but then again, I know there are enough people in law enforcement and the military that would have problem imposing martial law on the common citizen "for their own good".

[Don Coyote]

However, the fact that the 2nd amendment was put in place to protect the rest of the bill of rights has in fact become a sad joke.

Amendment's there, but everyone's too busy to defend the rest.   

It does seem like a lot of this is just smoke and mirrors to distract from all the other right's being violated.

[Faust]

I don't buy cultural heratige as a reason to have the right to a firearm, the russians aren't about to march in, the fact is that the majority of people who get killed by guns in the US are through accidents or violence in the home.

Sure, but I'd like to bring up one further issue on the cultural level.  Fact is, our constitution has a set of (supposedly) inalienable rights.  These rights are already constantly being trampled...The last thing I want to do is restructure those rights, given that both sides of the political spectrum have a laundry list of rights they'd like to curtail.

The simplest way you'd deal with that would be an amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment.  That isn't going to happen in today's political climate.  It would have precisely zero chance of passing, no matter who is in office.

So to curtail that one right, you'd need either a constitutional convention, and then it's Katy bar the door on ALL rights (the religious right, for example, has been pushing for a convention since 1981), or to outright abrogate the constitution, which would have even worse results.

From what I have seen it is the only inalienable right that has not been circumvented or made a mockery of, the fact that it is the most repugnant and obsolete stands as testament of its failure.

But I agree and I believe if it it was to be rewritten there is no hope that it could be replaced with something better.

Well, we still have amendment III.  Because there's no fat contracts in quartering troops in peoples' homes.

I'm sure it will come, Anti terrorism Hotdesks for working on site at terror amber zones will be needed.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

However, the fact that the 2nd amendment was put in place to protect the rest of the bill of rights has in fact become a sad joke.

Amendment's there, but everyone's too busy to defend the rest.   

It does seem like a lot of this is just smoke and mirrors to distract from all the other right's being violated.

Yep.  We won't take your guns, but don't ask what's happening to your ass.   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A lot of european countries have less shootings than the US. Hell, probably ALL of them have a lot less, and they actually seem shocked when it does happen.

But they're first world countries, aren't they? People have all kinds of nifty perks and benefits that will never happen here because US tards are brainwashed that SOME SMUDGEY PERSON MIGHT PLAY THE SYSTEM. Maybe the powers that be in europe don't give a fuck if the people live or die, but at least they PRETEND to.


People get along a lot better when there's enough to go around. They tend to snap a lot less, too. When all the austerity kicks in, we'll see how it goes over there. Guns or no guns.

It's not a European thing, or even an economic thing though I did joke about that earlier.

I don't buy that either. How many Guatomallan school shootings are there?

Its true it does shock me that this happens every other week and people still seem to cling to the belief that its justifiable and unaviodable.

Wow, I can't really understand why you chose Guatemala for your comparison, but OK.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=360166&CategoryId=23558

Not exactly big school shooting events, but Guatemala is a country still dealing with a lot of unrest and horrific levels of violence, as are many of the countries in Latin America.

I chose Guatomala because exactly because of its heinous violence, it still has less school shootings. Targeting schools is a cultural thing.

This is true... other countries seem to prefer bombing schools to shooting them.

[Don Coyote]

A lot of european countries have less shootings than the US. Hell, probably ALL of them have a lot less, and they actually seem shocked when it does happen.

But they're first world countries, aren't they? People have all kinds of nifty perks and benefits that will never happen here because US tards are brainwashed that SOME SMUDGEY PERSON MIGHT PLAY THE SYSTEM. Maybe the powers that be in europe don't give a fuck if the people live or die, but at least they PRETEND to.


People get along a lot better when there's enough to go around. They tend to snap a lot less, too. When all the austerity kicks in, we'll see how it goes over there. Guns or no guns.

It's not a European thing, or even an economic thing though I did joke about that earlier.

I don't buy that either. How many Guatomallan school shootings are there?

Its true it does shock me that this happens every other week and people still seem to cling to the belief that its justifiable and unaviodable.

Wow, I can't really understand why you chose Guatemala for your comparison, but OK.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=360166&CategoryId=23558

Not exactly big school shooting events, but Guatemala is a country still dealing with a lot of unrest and horrific levels of violence, as are many of the countries in Latin America.

I chose Guatomala because exactly because of its heinous violence, it still has less school shootings. Targeting schools is a cultural thing.

This is true... other countries seem to prefer bombing schools to shooting them.

Like...Afghanistan?

[Faust]

Faust, I don't know how many military service members you know, but I know quite a few that would be more than willing to be good little storm troopers and go along with any kind of imposition of martial law. I know people that see nothing wrong with spraying military grade CS into the eyes of restrained citizens. This is in addition to the kinds of abuses that people are willing to go along with AND inflict on other citizens in the name of "public safety", or the fact that Roger and others have first hand witnessed or dealt with the corrupt horror that is civilian law enforcement.
It may just be that I am product of my culture, except growing up I was forbidden from playing with anything resembling a gun or from watching violent media or anything that glorified war, or gun use. It may be a product of 5 years in the US Army, except I discharge a firearm only once ever 6 months or so, and picked a support job in the Army. It might even be because I study and practice ancient ways of killing people for fun, but then again the most deadly weapon I own is a tomahawk, which is just a glorified camp axe. I don't even own a firearm.
I might just be defending my and fellow citizen's right to bear arms because it is a clause attached to an ancient piece of paper that has been systemically trampled on.
Maybe if it wasn't there, I wouldn't care, but then again, I know there are enough people in law enforcement and the military that would have problem imposing martial law on the common citizen "for their own good".

Yeah, like Gabrielle Giffords, and other Redcoat oppressors.  They don't need force to impose martial law, they already have your willing complacency.

Buy a gun = defend your rights, as opposed to you know, actually performing an action that defends your rights.
Those children wont be pepper spraying or tazing anyone any time soon.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Those children wont be pepper spraying or tazing anyone any time soon.

Yeah, well, if you look at Arlington Cemetery from the air, the tombstones spell out "THERE'S MORE WHERE THEY CAME FROM".

Other kids will grow up to impose fucked up laws on us, just you wait and see.

[Faust]

A lot of european countries have less shootings than the US. Hell, probably ALL of them have a lot less, and they actually seem shocked when it does happen.

But they're first world countries, aren't they? People have all kinds of nifty perks and benefits that will never happen here because US tards are brainwashed that SOME SMUDGEY PERSON MIGHT PLAY THE SYSTEM. Maybe the powers that be in europe don't give a fuck if the people live or die, but at least they PRETEND to.


People get along a lot better when there's enough to go around. They tend to snap a lot less, too. When all the austerity kicks in, we'll see how it goes over there. Guns or no guns.

It's not a European thing, or even an economic thing though I did joke about that earlier.

I don't buy that either. How many Guatomallan school shootings are there?

Its true it does shock me that this happens every other week and people still seem to cling to the belief that its justifiable and unaviodable.

Wow, I can't really understand why you chose Guatemala for your comparison, but OK.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=360166&CategoryId=23558

Not exactly big school shooting events, but Guatemala is a country still dealing with a lot of unrest and horrific levels of violence, as are many of the countries in Latin America.

I chose Guatomala because exactly because of its heinous violence, it still has less school shootings. Targeting schools is a cultural thing.

This is true... other countries seem to prefer bombing schools to shooting them.

Like...Afghanistan?

The 51st state never did get the cultural mannerisms down.

[Faust]

Those children wont be pepper spraying or tazing anyone any time soon.

Yeah, well, if you look at Arlington Cemetery from the air, the tombstones spell out "THERE'S MORE WHERE THEY CAME FROM".

Other kids will grow up to impose fucked up laws on us, just you wait and see.

Yeah what terrifying notion, one of the children who survived could have been warped beyond sense and reason, they could through their skewed and biased views hate Freedom and lobby against owning a gun *GASP*

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Those children wont be pepper spraying or tazing anyone any time soon.

Yeah, well, if you look at Arlington Cemetery from the air, the tombstones spell out "THERE'S MORE WHERE THEY CAME FROM".

Other kids will grow up to impose fucked up laws on us, just you wait and see.

Yeah what terrifying notion, one of the children who survived could have been warped beyond sense and reason, they could through their skewed and biased views, they could hate Freedom and lobby against owning a gun *GASP*

I was thinking more about them holding down their fellow citizens and waterboarding them, actually.

General Karpinski was a child once, too, remember.  And we've essentially thrown away our principles.  Imagine what our grandchildren will be like.

[Don Coyote]

Looks like anyone who owns a gun is a bad person for owning a gun because if they support gun ownership and are against removal of that right, they cannot be fighting against the other rights being trampled in the US. Also everyone in the US is terrible because our government does horrible things to people, like build schools that get bombed by terrorists, that totally wouldn't be doing that if America hadn't stuck its dick in the Mid East.

[Faust]

Those children wont be pepper spraying or tazing anyone any time soon.

Yeah, well, if you look at Arlington Cemetery from the air, the tombstones spell out "THERE'S MORE WHERE THEY CAME FROM".

Other kids will grow up to impose fucked up laws on us, just you wait and see.

Yeah what terrifying notion, one of the children who survived could have been warped beyond sense and reason, they could through their skewed and biased views, they could hate Freedom and lobby against owning a gun *GASP*

I was thinking more about them holding down their fellow citizens and waterboarding them, actually.

General Karpinski was a child once, too, remember.  And we've essentially thrown away our principles.  Imagine what our grandchildren will be like.

Ah I see, so this guy was doing a service, well that's good. I was worried that it was a senseless act of violence..

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Looks like anyone who owns a gun is a bad person for owning a gun because if they support gun ownership and are against removal of that right, they cannot be fighting against the other rights being trampled in the US. Also everyone in the US is terrible because our government does horrible things to people, like build schools that get bombed by terrorists, that totally wouldn't be doing that if America hadn't stuck its dick in the Mid East.

What I think, is that you and Faust are yelling past each other.

I mean, America is a Terrible Place.  It really is.  It's not like we went to Afghanistan to build schools.  Or Iraq, for that matter.

On the other hand, I am puzzled by Faust attempting to turn you and I into caricatures of NRA members.

[Faust]

Looks like anyone who owns a gun is a bad person for owning a gun because if they support gun ownership and are against removal of that right, they cannot be fighting against the other rights being trampled in the US. Also everyone in the US is terrible because our government does horrible things to people, like build schools that get bombed by terrorists, that totally wouldn't be doing that if America hadn't stuck its dick in the Mid East.

That must sum it up Chumley.