Your Daily Dose of Happy Facts

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I was making a sandwich at work tonight and I looked at the bag of lettuce - product of Mexico. O.o

A lot of our winter produce comes from Mexico and Chile.

We have local produce in our produce department. But the shit we use in our own kitchens comes from Mexico. It makes no sense. Well. I suppose cost wise it does. But it explains the excessive discoloration we've been having.

[Junkenstein]

I was making a sandwich at work tonight and I looked at the bag of lettuce - product of Mexico. O.o

LIES.

MEXICO makes nothing. He hasn't even come up with the second part of the joke yet and all you are just letting him get away with it.

Revolucion!

El 5/8'thshshs

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Makes me sad

That is really, really sad. And the thing is, how would our lives suffer if we didn't buy the piece of shit plastic gewgaws that is made by the people in labor camps? Or if we paid twenty times as much for work made by workers paid a decent living wage for their region? Not at all, really.

If most Americans had an obvious (ie no work needed on their part) option, I think they would choose to pay more for something else or not buy something with a label "WARNING: This product comes from slave labor". I don't think people intentionally support this shit to support their el cheapo Halloween prop addiction. However, many Americans are lazy and can't be arsed to read the fine print on anything important, let alone do research on shit plastic gewgaws (love that phrase).

As long as companies can sell slave made products without obvious warning stickers, as long as international governments use hand slapping and tsk tsk'ing instead of hardcore sanctions, then this shit will continue. FFS, most people don't check the ingredients of what they stick in their bodies, they sure as hell aren't gonna research McSpooky's Halloween Decorations.

It used to be that one could judge a nation on how they treated the weakest in their care. In the modern world economy, the philosophy must change to how the nation deals with the treatment of the weakest in the care of those they trade with.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

i'm not disagreeing with you... 

Then please explain to me what the last 3-4 posts we each made WERE?  I mean, you could start with "Apple employees have it pretty good" in response to my using them as an example, only to later state that they didn't.

Because from where I'm sitting, it LOOKS like:  "Roger makes a post.  Post must be undermined, because of internet penis.  Roger is now driven from thread out of sheer annoyance.  Internet penis validated."

Roger exiting stage left, pursued by a bear.

sure.  V3X was talking about purchasing slaves to set them free, and i was saying that they aren't legally owned. it's just de facto slavery because they aren't able to escape.
you then said "yeah, but they're de facto slaves! look at apple employees"
my response was meant to say, "yes. they are de facto slaves.  but i was talking about the people that are physically unable to escape without threat of violence on them.  the apple employees aren't in that boat."

i'm not arguing that they are being fairly treated, however. just that they don't have a gun to their head.

perhaps i'm being a schmuck and bolstering my ePenis.  i dunno.
i'll leave you alone now, if you want.

I may be wayyyy off here but what i see happening is a misunderstanding of an seemingly unimportant detail.
Some people when they talk about apple employees are talking about those pretty twentysomethings in the apple store.
Some people when they talk about apple employees are talking about those actually producing apple products in true slavery conditions.

I think he was trying to differentiate between chattel slavery and employees with 0 rights and terrible working conditions. In an environment where there are very few job options, I don't see a functional difference.

Chattel slavery - If you try to quit, we'll kill/beat you.
FOXCONN - Sure you can quit, but there are no other jobs and you'll soon die of starvation.

yeah. that was pretty much it.  and, like i said, the reason i drew the distinction was in the context of V3X's suggestion that an activist group could go  buy them into freedom, while spinning it as buying them into further slavery without any pretense that it is anything other than what it was.  i just pointed out that they couldn't just be bought in that manner since they weren't legally owned, despite being, essentially, chattel slaves.  the idea would have to be tweaked to get the sought effect.  bringing apple employees into it seemed entirely off point, because they are, in fact, not forced to stay there.  there is no threat of violence.  they are not unpaid.
What i was not saying is that their situation is good, or even less bad.  i was simply saying that it's irrelevant to the hypothetical under consideration.

but apparently this crapped everything up, and i ruined something Roger was building up to because i was ...involved in an epenis contest? and now he's left the thread, and i feel terrible.

The whole thesis fell apart as soon as it turned into semantic shittery.

My suggestion; before you hit "Post", ask yourself whether you are adding to the discussion or nitpicking semantics. If you find yourself engaging in semantic shittery, stop.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Makes me sad

That is really, really sad. And the thing is, how would our lives suffer if we didn't buy the piece of shit plastic gewgaws that is made by the people in labor camps? Or if we paid twenty times as much for work made by workers paid a decent living wage for their region? Not at all, really.

If most Americans had an obvious (ie no work needed on their part) option, I think they would choose to pay more for something else or not buy something with a label "WARNING: This product comes from slave labor". I don't think people intentionally support this shit to support their el cheapo Halloween prop addiction. However, many Americans are lazy and can't be arsed to read the fine print on anything important, let alone do research on shit plastic gewgaws (love that phrase).

As long as companies can sell slave made products without obvious warning stickers, as long as international governments use hand slapping and tsk tsk'ing instead of hardcore sanctions, then this shit will continue. FFS, most people don't check the ingredients of what they stick in their bodies, they sure as hell aren't gonna research McSpooky's Halloween Decorations.

It used to be that one could judge a nation on how they treated the weakest in their care. In the modern world economy, the philosophy must change to how the nation deals with the treatment of the weakest in the care of those they trade with.

I think it's unfair and also a bit piggish to say that "people are lazy" because they buy what's on the shelves. This same argument came up in the thread about ingredients labels, and I am going to just stop right here and call bullshit on it.

Reasonable people do not assume there is sugar in their ravioli. Reasonable people do not assume they need to jump through hoops to buy products that are not made by slaves.

Jaded, cynical people do. We may be jaded and cynical for very good reasons, but that doesn't make normal, reasonable people inferior or stupid or lazy because they DON'T walk around all the time assuming  that THE WORLD IS FUCKED AND THEY'RE TRYING TO FUCK US.

OK. So, now that I've gotten that off my chest, let's talk about your real point, which is that we cannot rely on the "Free Market" to protect us from slavery and exploitation, or even, for that matter, from being poisoned. As long as the "Free Market" exists, with its highest goal of MORE PROFITS, there is going to be a powerful, well-backed push toward manufacture and sale of the most cheaply-made consumer goods possible, with the highest profit margin possible. That push has led to nearly the complete eradication of high-quality consumer goods.

The consumer end isn't going to fix this, because that would be relying on the "Free Market" to fix itself. Not going to happen. Only political pressure will fix it, and political pressure will only come to bear if there is a generalized social shift away from free market capitalism.

Well, we know what we can't do. So, the question returns to what we CAN do.

We really only have one tool at our disposal, because we don't have money. We can communicate. We can try to shift social perception. We can post flyers, put stickers on products on store shelves (how about small, unobtrustive stickers that say "Proudly made with slave labor!"?) and talk to our friends and neighbors about how we support sanctions. We can talk about sanctions not against countries that supply slave labor conditions, but against companies that exploit them. We can try to associate the Free Market™ with slavery. Posters, stickers, taglines that say "FREE MARKET SLAVERY". We can try to make memes. Images of a child in shackles that say "Free me from the Free Market".

There ARE things we can do. People are talking about it, and that's a sign of hope. What won't work is throwing up our hands and saying "There's nothing I can do!"

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I seriously think it's time to turn the worship of the Free Market™ against them. Turn it into a dirty word.

FREE SLAVE MARKET.

[LMNO]

I'm digging on the Free Market Slavery idea.

[East Coast Hustle]

I think it's unfair and also a bit piggish to say that "people are lazy" because they buy what's on the shelves. This same argument came up in the thread about ingredients labels, and I am going to just stop right here and call bullshit on it.

Reasonable people do not assume there is sugar in their ravioli. Reasonable people do not assume they need to jump through hoops to buy products that are not made by slaves.

Jaded, cynical people do. We may be jaded and cynical for very good reasons, but that doesn't make normal, reasonable people inferior or stupid or lazy because they DON'T walk around all the time assuming  that THE WORLD IS FUCKED AND THEY'RE TRYING TO FUCK US.

I'm not sure there are as many reasonable people as you think.

My experience has been (and this is strictly anecdotal) that in both contexts, when people ARE informed about the poison they're eating or the slavery they're supporting, 90% of the responses are along the lines of "yeah, well, what can you do? I mean, I really LIKE these jeans!"

Fuck people. Most of them are miserable shits who would probably whip the slaves themselves for some free merch.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i'm not disagreeing with you... 

Then please explain to me what the last 3-4 posts we each made WERE?  I mean, you could start with "Apple employees have it pretty good" in response to my using them as an example, only to later state that they didn't.

Because from where I'm sitting, it LOOKS like:  "Roger makes a post.  Post must be undermined, because of internet penis.  Roger is now driven from thread out of sheer annoyance.  Internet penis validated."

Roger exiting stage left, pursued by a bear.

sure.  V3X was talking about purchasing slaves to set them free, and i was saying that they aren't legally owned. it's just de facto slavery because they aren't able to escape.
you then said "yeah, but they're de facto slaves! look at apple employees"
my response was meant to say, "yes. they are de facto slaves.  but i was talking about the people that are physically unable to escape without threat of violence on them.  the apple employees aren't in that boat."

i'm not arguing that they are being fairly treated, however. just that they don't have a gun to their head.

perhaps i'm being a schmuck and bolstering my ePenis.  i dunno.
i'll leave you alone now, if you want.

I may be wayyyy off here but what i see happening is a misunderstanding of an seemingly unimportant detail.
Some people when they talk about apple employees are talking about those pretty twentysomethings in the apple store.
Some people when they talk about apple employees are talking about those actually producing apple products in true slavery conditions.

I think he was trying to differentiate between chattel slavery and employees with 0 rights and terrible working conditions. In an environment where there are very few job options, I don't see a functional difference.

Chattel slavery - If you try to quit, we'll kill/beat you.
FOXCONN - Sure you can quit, but there are no other jobs and you'll soon die of starvation.

yeah. that was pretty much it.  and, like i said, the reason i drew the distinction was in the context of V3X's suggestion that an activist group could go  buy them into freedom, while spinning it as buying them into further slavery without any pretense that it is anything other than what it was.  i just pointed out that they couldn't just be bought in that manner since they weren't legally owned, despite being, essentially, chattel slaves.  the idea would have to be tweaked to get the sought effect.  bringing apple employees into it seemed entirely off point, because they are, in fact, not forced to stay there.  there is no threat of violence.  they are not unpaid.
What i was not saying is that their situation is good, or even less bad.  i was simply saying that it's irrelevant to the hypothetical under consideration.

but apparently this crapped everything up, and i ruined something Roger was building up to because i was ...involved in an epenis contest? and now he's left the thread, and i feel terrible.

The whole thesis fell apart as soon as it turned into semantic shittery.

My suggestion; before you hit "Post", ask yourself whether you are adding to the discussion or nitpicking semantics. If you find yourself engaging in semantic shittery, stop.

Thanks.

It was a good thought I was having.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I blame myself.

I should know better.  When a serious thread gets silly, with all manner of unworkable and/or "ironic" ideas that are then taken seriously enough to become the conversation, I should know enough to walk away, and maybe write the idea down for another time.  Likewise, when someone comes along using semantics as a means of stalling your idea, NOTHING IS GOING TO HELP.  The thread is fucking dead.  If you had an idea, write it down and wait a month.

[Bruno]

What are the odds that we could actually make contact with some of these people?

Do FOXCONN workers have names and addresses, or maybe even email. I think physical mail is more likely, and harder for the government/company to censor.

Reaching actual prison labor is, of course, extremely unlikely.

[Elder Iptuous]

that would be interesting to hear directly from them.
interestingly, when i started googling to find out how to contact them, much of the results are articles discussing how Foxconn has halted hiring of employees as part of its move to replace all its workers with robots.
so, i guess we can stop worrying about slavery there soon!

.
.
.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm digging on the Free Market Slavery idea.

I think that one has legs, too.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm digging on the Free Market Slavery idea.

I think that one has legs, too.

And I know JUST where to use it.   

HFT, here I come.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm digging on the Free Market Slavery idea.

I think that one has legs, too.

And I know JUST where to use it.   

HFT, here I come.

Perfect! 

I have a great visual in my head which, sadly, I lack the technical skills to make myself: a smartphone (can't be Apple, everyone already knows about Apple and it gives too many people an easy excuse) with an image of a kid at a workbench, and in the search box the words "free market slavery"