Author Topic: Turkish PM pisses off Israel again  (Read 818 times)

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Turkish PM pisses off Israel again
« on: March 01, 2013, 03:11:03 pm »
I am not taking a position on this, because I'm still reading stuff and trying to form an opinion... however, I do find PD a good place to poke at this kinda stuff so here goes:

Quote
"As with Zionism, anti-Semitism and fascism, it is inevitable that Islamophobia be considered a crime against humanity."
- Tayyip Erdogan, Turkish PM

This was said at a UN conference this past week. Israel and the US claim that its offensive. Erdogan claims that its a valid compaarison and isn't intended to be anti-semetic. My understanding of Zionism has always been pretty shaded by my previous life... (ie the conservative christian cult perception). However, after this hit the news I did some research on the political movement of Zionism.

So Zionism, as used here (not the religious view) is about having a nation for the Jewish people. Its the movement that led to the post-WWII foundation of Israel, its the justification for the removal of the Palestinian people, its the justification for what some people call "war" and others call "ethnic cleansing", its the justification for the continued expansion of settlements (at least as I understand the term based on what I've been reading).

Should this comment be offensive? Is antisemitism functionally different than anti-palestinianism? Or is being anti-Zionism really equal to antisemitism? In some of the references I've read, guys like Noam Chomsky claim that the two are diffferent, and the argument is used to shut anyone up that wants to criticize Israel, while others claim the whole thing is offensive. Some quotes appear racist, or at the very least extremely nationalist.

Quote
we shall endeavour to expel the poor population across the border unnoticed ó the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly
- Theodore Herzl (one of the founders of the Zionist political movement)

There are a number of incidents that are pointed to where one side says "Meh, it was war" and the other side says "It was a massacre based on ethnic cleansing". It seems as confusing to me as the situation Mr. Erdogan continues to fight regarding the Turks vs. Armenians in the first part of the 20th century. Turks call it war, Armenians call it ethnic cleansing.

All that aside, from my perspective, I think Erdogan is doing this shit intentionally to grow his cred on the Muslim side of the world, he seems intent to put himself and Turkey as the go-between for East and West. Seems like political football to me.. but it did bring up this interesting question :)
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Re: Turkish PM pisses off Israel again
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 06:21:35 pm »
I am not taking a position on this, because I'm still reading stuff and trying to form an opinion... however, I do find PD a good place to poke at this kinda stuff so here goes:

Quote
"As with Zionism, anti-Semitism and fascism, it is inevitable that Islamophobia be considered a crime against humanity."
- Tayyip Erdogan, Turkish PM

This was said at a UN conference this past week. Israel and the US claim that its offensive. Erdogan claims that its a valid compaarison and isn't intended to be anti-semetic. My understanding of Zionism has always been pretty shaded by my previous life... (ie the conservative christian cult perception). However, after this hit the news I did some research on the political movement of Zionism.

So Zionism, as used here (not the religious view) is about having a nation for the Jewish people. Its the movement that led to the post-WWII foundation of Israel, its the justification for the removal of the Palestinian people, its the justification for what some people call "war" and others call "ethnic cleansing", its the justification for the continued expansion of settlements (at least as I understand the term based on what I've been reading).

Should this comment be offensive? Is antisemitism functionally different than anti-palestinianism? Or is being anti-Zionism really equal to antisemitism? In some of the references I've read, guys like Noam Chomsky claim that the two are diffferent, and the argument is used to shut anyone up that wants to criticize Israel, while others claim the whole thing is offensive. Some quotes appear racist, or at the very least extremely nationalist.

Quote
we shall endeavour to expel the poor population across the border unnoticed ó the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly
- Theodore Herzl (one of the founders of the Zionist political movement)

There are a number of incidents that are pointed to where one side says "Meh, it was war" and the other side says "It was a massacre based on ethnic cleansing". It seems as confusing to me as the situation Mr. Erdogan continues to fight regarding the Turks vs. Armenians in the first part of the 20th century. Turks call it war, Armenians call it ethnic cleansing.

All that aside, from my perspective, I think Erdogan is doing this shit intentionally to grow his cred on the Muslim side of the world, he seems intent to put himself and Turkey as the go-between for East and West. Seems like political football to me.. but it did bring up this interesting question :)

It strikes me as the same deal we have with Terrurists v's Freedom Fighters the nomenclature changes depending on who's side you're on. It's why good always triumphs over evil - good = who's left
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