Conquest of the Planet of the Bride of the Son of the Return of the Open Bar

[navkat]

I was just accused of oppressing a well-heeled, American white male for suggesting survivor benefits should go to widows and children of the deceased and that a self-declared eternal-bachelor should NOT be allowed to sign a contract naming his DOG a beneficiary of survivor benefits, just because HE paid into the system too.

[AFK]

Why not?  I wouldn't necessarily call that oppression, but what is wrong with someone who doesn't have any intent on ever having children being able to leave resources behind for a pet? 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Why not?  I wouldn't necessarily call that oppression, but what is wrong with someone who doesn't have any intent on ever having children being able to leave resources behind for a pet?

I don't think Social Security is really set up for that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I mean, the guy can set up a trust fund for his dog all week long if that's what he wants, but I don't think the SSI office is going to pay into it.

[navkat]

That's his argument. It had to do with an argument I made for marriage equality and he said the GLBT community should take the path of least resistance and let the religious keep their marriage and just accept civil union. I replied that a "tiered" system of inequality was still unequal and encouraged society to return to a "separate but equal" attitude about people different from themselves which was NOT COOL in my book.

He then brought up eliminating state-recognition of unions ALTOGETHER because it's unconstitutional and unfair and suggested people should be allowed to just contract themselves to whomever, whenever, however, privately and without intervention. At some point, he challenged me to come up with one thing a marriage or civil union could allow partners to do that a contract could not and I replied with the survivor benefits thing. He insisted a contract or Will could take care of that too.

So, appealing to his obv libertarian side, I told him theoretically, that's a great idea but realistically, it'll lead to fraud and a whole lot of worse messes as private contracts CAN be challenged in court by surviving birth relatives and marriage can NOT as easily be challenged. I mentioned that in such instance, we really *would* have people doing fraudulent things like contracting themselves to their pets and stuff on paper and a host of issues due to improperly or unwitnessed contracts. and the like. I postulated that there would be MORE infringing government intervention as the courts became bogged down trying to sort out which of these contracts constituted intent to bind together in union two (or more) adults, which were unlawful, which were jokes, etc. (I didn't even really get INTO matters with children or access to medical and financial access type stuff).

Then he said something like "Well what's wrong with unwitnessed contracts? The government has no business, yadda yadda. And why CAN'T I will my dog to receive survivor benefits after I go? I pay too. It isn't fair."

So after the ice cream headache subsided a bit from THAT, I explained to him that those benefits are a safety net for partners suffering from the loss of the other team member who shared burdens and obligations with them. They are not a windfall, not intended for pets and they aren't there so that he can Will his best friend in Colorado a new car, just because he croaked.
That if he wanted his dog cared for when he bit the big one, he was welcome to buy separate insurance for that but that we all pay into a system that's there to ensure widows are still able to provide for the children if daddy dies and 80 year old grandmas don't have to eat cat food.


Then, before I had a chance to make a double-post, delving into what a bad idea it is allowing unwitnessed contracts with no regulation that no governing body is allowed to enforce or deny and ask him how that system would prevent breech of contract and someone cleaning out everything and leaving the other partner with nothing, he accused me of wanting to legislate morality and infringe on his rights as a single man who intends not to marry by not granting him the same rights and benefits as people who are married, he went off again, whining about how unfair it is to him and that I don't really stand for EQUALITY, I wanted to assign rights to my favorites. That I was all about equality until it comes to HIM. (He's white, male and well-heeled. Did I mention that?)

I almost lost it.

"Wow. Yeah, because you're so oppressed," I said.

To which he replied:
"Never said I was oppressed. Just not treated as an equal. I love it though. Rather than shoot for the right thing and get our government out of our lives, you'd like to solve problems like this with more government.

...and yes, I guess I am sort of oppressed. I won't get to enjoy the same benefits and rights as the rest of you and all because I don't want to get married in order to have those rights and benefits. You've got a lovely double standard there. Keep it up." and:

"...but I do enjoy how you turn to sarcasm when you've got nuthin'."

So I said:
"MORE GOVERNMENT? Are you serious? It's creating more government to keep religious people from infringing GLBT right to marry? Wow. And they used to call ME a Libertarian nutter..." And:

"And I don't understand. Using your logic, I'm being oppressed too because I'm not needy and therefore, can't collect food stamps. Saying you're entitled to widower benefits even though you never intend to be a widow makes about as much sense."

His response:
"Keep typing. All I see is equality for everyone. ...except you and you and...

Using my logic, there would be no inequality for anyone. ANYONE. We would all be given the same rights, benefits, etc.

Using your logic, I would continue to lose defense contracts because I'm not a minority run business. I understand why they USED to call you a libertarian. A true libertarian is against government intrusion except where it is absolutely necessary."

(RIGHT, BECAUSE I SAID MINORITY GROUPS COME BEFORE WHITES WHEN IT COMES TIME TO ASSIGN DEFENSE CONTRACTS!!! GRRR!!!)

And then he flounced with:
"I'm out. It's clear to me that you don't want to treat EVERYONE equally.

Sorry for blowing up your post Cedric. I sincerely hope that someday soon you'll be treated as an absolute equal with all the accorded rights and benefits that we ALL deserve."

Exactly which motorcycle is..? Where..? What the..?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I made a new friend. Out for a smoke like. Maybe there was an oh shit car got broken into moment. Anyway his name is niall. Her from county down. His accent did strike me as northern. He thought mine sounded canadian.

[East Coast Hustle]

OK, PD, I need a head-check.

ECHGF 2.0 snooped my phone. Now, I haven't been hiding anything from her or doing anything I wouldn't want her to know about. There's no reason for her to have any suspicions that would even come CLOSE to justifying that sort of thing, if indeed anything ever justifies that sort of thing. Her stated reason for feeling suspicious and insecure enough to snoop my phone is that I'm still friends with my ex-GF and talk to her alot, which is true depending on your definition of "alot", in that we exchange texts a few times a week. I have never kept that hidden or a secret. I explained to her right from the start that if I liked someone enough to spend 7 years with them, even if things didn't work out romantically I'm still going to want to be friends with that person. None of our conversations veer into anything inappropriate or threatening to my current relationship. Not to mention that my ex lives 200 miles away. I've seen her once in the last 7 months, when I stopped by to pick up a load of my stuff.

Now, with regards to the current GF, this is the first time she's ever done anything that's actually UPSET me (not talking about normal everyday annoyances) and the first time she's ever shown any hint of maybe having a touch of the crazy. She is, by and large, a very sweet and intelligent woman who makes me laugh alot and enjoys enough of the things I enjoy that we don't drive each other nuts with our quirks.

And yet....SHE SNOOPED MY MOTHERFUCKING PHONE. THAT IS NOT EVEN A TINY BIT OK. And trusting people is very difficult for me and being able to trust someone is pretty much my number one prerequisite for wanting to be in a serious romantic relationship with them. So I ask you, PD, if I decide that this is a deal-breaker for me, am I overreacting? 

This may be a deal-breaker for me.

[Junkenstein]

I'd guess the reasonable thing to do would be state that this is a motherfucking line. Cross it again and pack your bags.

I can forgive a fuck-up, I struggle to forgive repeat offences.

[Luna]

Disclaimer: I snooped the NYEX's phone.  I felt lousy about it when I did it, and worse when I found exactly what I had expected to find.

She most likely did it because, yes, she is insecure.  Assuming, for the moment, that she has Baden screwed over at least once in the past (who hasn't?), this is understandable.  She doesn't know how to deal with it, and you having conversations with your ex aggravated it.  (Note, I think it is awesome you still have a cordial relationship with your ex.)

You were clear, you thought.  She missed the message.  This was a communication breakdown.

You are justifiably upset.  She was (not knowing her,  I am speculating, here) acting to deal with an unaddressed insecurity.  She handled it wrong.

Express to her that snooping in your phone is disrespectful, and you won't tolerate it.  If you are party with showing her the conversations, tell her that if she wants to see, you will show her.  Tell her that, more than the snooping, you are worried that she doesn't trust you, and see if you can work through that.

I'd call it a first major fight, and see if it's recoverable.

[navkat]

OK, PD, I need a head-check.

ECHGF 2.0 snooped my phone. Now, I haven't been hiding anything from her or doing anything I wouldn't want her to know about. There's no reason for her to have any suspicions that would even come CLOSE to justifying that sort of thing, if indeed anything ever justifies that sort of thing. Her stated reason for feeling suspicious and insecure enough to snoop my phone is that I'm still friends with my ex-GF and talk to her alot, which is true depending on your definition of "alot", in that we exchange texts a few times a week. I have never kept that hidden or a secret. I explained to her right from the start that if I liked someone enough to spend 7 years with them, even if things didn't work out romantically I'm still going to want to be friends with that person. None of our conversations veer into anything inappropriate or threatening to my current relationship. Not to mention that my ex lives 200 miles away. I've seen her once in the last 7 months, when I stopped by to pick up a load of my stuff.

Now, with regards to the current GF, this is the first time she's ever done anything that's actually UPSET me (not talking about normal everyday annoyances) and the first time she's ever shown any hint of maybe having a touch of the crazy. She is, by and large, a very sweet and intelligent woman who makes me laugh alot and enjoys enough of the things I enjoy that we don't drive each other nuts with our quirks.

And yet....SHE SNOOPED MY MOTHERFUCKING PHONE. THAT IS NOT EVEN A TINY BIT OK. And trusting people is very difficult for me and being able to trust someone is pretty much my number one prerequisite for wanting to be in a serious romantic relationship with them. So I ask you, PD, if I decide that this is a deal-breaker for me, am I overreacting? 

This may be a deal-breaker for me.

No. You are not.

I can tell you from experience that if you allow this to slip by "unreacted about," the natural progression of things leads to you becoming their property and your shit being their right to search.

It's possible this has been done to her and she doesn't know what big line this is. If that's the case, you can have a serious talk and explain that this must never happen again, then let it go but if she does it again, it probably means she can't help herself and it's never going to stop. Be glad it reared its ugly head before you ended up stuck with her somehow.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I'm with the "repeat offenses is a deal-breaker" crowd, but you gotta go with what makes you comfortable.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I'm with the "repeat offenses is a deal-breaker" crowd, but you gotta go with what makes you comfortable.

^this^

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'm with the "repeat offenses is a deal-breaker" crowd, but you gotta go with what makes you comfortable.

^this^

Yeah. People should be allowed ONE big fuckup, because they're, well...human.
A pattern of big fuckups is something else entirely.

[Salty]

I hate snoopers. They generally are repeat offenders, and depending on how AWESOME the person is, I guess I would allow it to happen twice before dropping them. Once is a fuckup, twice is a pattern.

Dan Savage says snooping is acceptable so long as what's found outweighs the crime of snooping. So, rarely ever. I just think trust is important, if you can't trust the one you're with enough to leave their damned phone alone, why torture yourself staying with them?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

OK, PD, I need a head-check.

ECHGF 2.0 snooped my phone. Now, I haven't been hiding anything from her or doing anything I wouldn't want her to know about. There's no reason for her to have any suspicions that would even come CLOSE to justifying that sort of thing, if indeed anything ever justifies that sort of thing. Her stated reason for feeling suspicious and insecure enough to snoop my phone is that I'm still friends with my ex-GF and talk to her alot, which is true depending on your definition of "alot", in that we exchange texts a few times a week. I have never kept that hidden or a secret. I explained to her right from the start that if I liked someone enough to spend 7 years with them, even if things didn't work out romantically I'm still going to want to be friends with that person. None of our conversations veer into anything inappropriate or threatening to my current relationship. Not to mention that my ex lives 200 miles away. I've seen her once in the last 7 months, when I stopped by to pick up a load of my stuff.

Now, with regards to the current GF, this is the first time she's ever done anything that's actually UPSET me (not talking about normal everyday annoyances) and the first time she's ever shown any hint of maybe having a touch of the crazy. She is, by and large, a very sweet and intelligent woman who makes me laugh alot and enjoys enough of the things I enjoy that we don't drive each other nuts with our quirks.

And yet....SHE SNOOPED MY MOTHERFUCKING PHONE. THAT IS NOT EVEN A TINY BIT OK. And trusting people is very difficult for me and being able to trust someone is pretty much my number one prerequisite for wanting to be in a serious romantic relationship with them. So I ask you, PD, if I decide that this is a deal-breaker for me, am I overreacting? 

This may be a deal-breaker for me.

Confront her about it, see how things go.  You need more information.  Specifically, does she actually feel justified in what she did?