Conquest of the Planet of the Bride of the Son of the Return of the Open Bar

[trippinprincezz13]

I'm with the "repeat offenses is a deal-breaker" crowd, but you gotta go with what makes you comfortable.

^this^

Yeah. People should be allowed ONE big fuckup, because they're, well...human.
A pattern of big fuckups is something else entirely.

I'm in agreement here. As someone who was constantly accused of cheating for no reason (just one item in his bag o' tricks that left me still putting the pieces back together 8+ years later), only to later find out he cheated on me multiple times (projection, much?), rather than the one time he bragged told bragged about, insecurity and trust issues can do quite a number on your brain. While I don't snoop, since I know how that feels, I know how insecurity can drive you insane, and it sounds like she didn't know do deal with it in an appropriate way.

But, trust is a huge thing in a relationship, from both parties, and if it's not there, it'll never work. I'd let her know how big of a deal it is, but maybe give her another chance. As has been mentioned, though, if it happens again, it's probably not going to stop.

[P3nT4gR4m]

so that's me signed up for 4* sea leader training, sidestepping 3* which will be included in my 4* training. After 3 days of intensive training I have up to a year to practice the shit, log trips assuming leader and assistant leader roles, then sit the assessment. When I pass that, I can start charging strangers money for taking parties of up to four on guided trips within a pretty limited remit whilst working toward 5* (top level).

The next step in operation: do my hobby for a living begins on the last week of June!

[LMNO]

ECH, not that I think poorly of you, but it must be asked, if only to be put aside:


ARE you cheating?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

ECH, not that I think poorly of you, but it must be asked, if only to be put aside:


ARE you cheating?

Doesn't really have much relevance, for the same reason we (supposedly) require warrants for searches in a legal sense.  The ends do not justify the means; the result does not justify the bad act.

[navkat]

I hate snoopers. They generally are repeat offenders, and depending on how AWESOME the person is, I guess I would allow it to happen twice before dropping them. Once is a fuckup, twice is a pattern.

Dan Savage says snooping is acceptable so long as what's found outweighs the crime of snooping. So, rarely ever. I just think trust is important, if you can't trust the one you're with enough to leave their damned phone alone, why torture yourself staying with them?

So the ends justify the means? That makes about as much sense as the men who justify crippling my independence as long as it keeps me from leaving them.

[navkat]

ECH, not that I think poorly of you, but it must be asked, if only to be put aside:


ARE you cheating?

Doesn't really have much relevance, for the same reason we (supposedly) require warrants for searches in a legal sense.  The ends do not justify the means; the result does not justify the bad act.

Beat me to it.

[Salty]

I hate snoopers. They generally are repeat offenders, and depending on how AWESOME the person is, I guess I would allow it to happen twice before dropping them. Once is a fuckup, twice is a pattern.

Dan Savage says snooping is acceptable so long as what's found outweighs the crime of snooping. So, rarely ever. I just think trust is important, if you can't trust the one you're with enough to leave their damned phone alone, why torture yourself staying with them?

So the ends justify the means? That makes about as much sense as the men who justify crippling my independence as long as it keeps me from leaving them.

I don't see the direct corrolation there.

Either way, that's not so.much my opinion as much as its, Dan Savages. I am pretty unforgiving of people in relationships, and these days would probably drop someone immediately for going through my phone. My privacy is important to me in that regard, as a boundary.

The thing is, its a lack of confidence. A creepy sort of lack of confidence. And I just can't stomach it. I wouldn't feel much except the feeling of shoving that person into the One of THEM category, which is reserved for all the humans I do not have time.to worry about because humans that nurture me and don't sap my resources need that time.

[Salty]

If you are cheating, actually are cheating, and your other finds out you have bigger things to worry about beyond the snooping because you've already betrayed the other person.

If I DID snoop, which I wouldn't, and I found out some bad shit I would feel no remorse. Because they were a bigger asshole.

That's not the same as The Ends Justify The Means, it means You Cheated You Motherfucker, La La I can't hear you.

At that point its not about justification, its about a broken heart. The damage is done.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If I DID snoop, which I wouldn't, and I found out some bad shit I would feel no remorse. Because they were a bigger asshole.

The other person may indeed be a bigger asshole, but that still leaves the snoop being merely a slightly smaller asshole.

I'd prefer not to be an asshole in that sense.

[Salty]

If I DID snoop, which I wouldn't, and I found out some bad shit I would feel no remorse. Because they were a bigger asshole.

The other person may indeed be a bigger asshole, but that still leaves the snoop being merely a slightly smaller asshole.

I'd prefer not to be an asshole in that sense.

I agree. I'd rather someone just go away if they don't want to stay by their word, and I'll let them dig that hole.

[East Coast Hustle]

ECH, not that I think poorly of you, but it must be asked, if only to be put aside:


ARE you cheating?

I thought I made it clear in the initial post, but no. Not with the exGF, not with anyone else. And I'm very straightforward about who and what I am ESPECIALLY with anyone I'm romantically involved in. If I feel the need to get some strange I'll ask for explicit permission first.

[East Coast Hustle]

so that's me signed up for 4* sea leader training, sidestepping 3* which will be included in my 4* training. After 3 days of intensive training I have up to a year to practice the shit, log trips assuming leader and assistant leader roles, then sit the assessment. When I pass that, I can start charging strangers money for taking parties of up to four on guided trips within a pretty limited remit whilst working toward 5* (top level).

The next step in operation: do my hobby for a living begins on the last week of June!

Dude, that is awesome as fuck! Let me know if you ever need to hire a chef for your booming kayak tour business. I'm nowhere near what I'd call an experienced kayaker, but I'm also not an inexperienced kayaker.

Seriously though, that's friggin bad the fuck ass. I wish I could make a living doing something I like that much.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Unless you're head-over-heels with this girl, dump her now.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

so that's me signed up for 4* sea leader training, sidestepping 3* which will be included in my 4* training. After 3 days of intensive training I have up to a year to practice the shit, log trips assuming leader and assistant leader roles, then sit the assessment. When I pass that, I can start charging strangers money for taking parties of up to four on guided trips within a pretty limited remit whilst working toward 5* (top level).

The next step in operation: do my hobby for a living begins on the last week of June!

That is very cool! Right on!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

ECH, not that I think poorly of you, but it must be asked, if only to be put aside:


ARE you cheating?

Doesn't really have much relevance, for the same reason we (supposedly) require warrants for searches in a legal sense.  The ends do not justify the means; the result does not justify the bad act.

I'm gonna debate that. I was at my wits end, going completely crazy, and had asked my husband over and over again what on earth was going on because everything felt JUST NOT RIGHT and he kept telling me that there was nothing. I finally lost it and looked at his email, and discovered that he was not only cheating, but that it had been going on for a while and that he was hooking up with people off Craigslist on a regular basis, sometimes in our house while I was gone, with the kids asleep in the house. Not only total strangers, but a risk to me and my kids.

Do the ends justify the means? I think that question doesn't even apply in a situation that messy, with lives that intertwined and with that many levels of shit going on. If I'd found nothing, I would have confessed and we would have ended up in counseling either way because shit was falling apart. It had to be bad for me to go to that kind of extreme.

On the other hand, snooping a boyfriend or girlfriend's phone because you "feel insecure" is just wrong, and I don't think it's a habit that can easily be trained out of someone. If they do it once, on some level they feel like their insecurity trumps your privacy, and that means they'll keep on doing it, and it will probably get worse.

Having lived with someone who would do shit like search my backpack when I wasn't looking, I am very sensitive to it. But I don't think that it's as simple to dismiss as "the end justifying the means" because in some cases, by the time a scrupulous person gets to that point, especially in a committed long-term partnership, something is very very wrong.