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Notes for the Free Market Slavery thing.

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, March 04, 2013, 09:24:21 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
March 06, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 06, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
This is very much in line with my view on the subject. Spooner makes some fantastic arguments that slavery by chain and slavery by law are different in name only. International travel has really opened my eyes to the "freedom" I was used to and the "freedom" people in other countries are used to. None of us are really free, but the US sure doesn't earn the title "Land of the Free" over and above most other nations. Its just propaganda at this point.

If they have to keep TELLING you you're free, you're not.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Anna Mae Bollocks

#16
March 06, 2013, 03:13:26 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 06, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
This is very much in line with my view on the subject. Spooner makes some fantastic arguments that slavery by chain and slavery by law are different in name only. International travel has really opened my eyes to the "freedom" I was used to and the "freedom" people in other countries are used to. None of us are really free, but the US sure doesn't earn the title "Land of the Free" over and above most other nations. Its just propaganda at this point.

If they have to keep TELLING you you're free, you're not.

This.

They DID stop putting the Liberty lady on coins about fifty or sixty years ago, but that's the only honesty points I can give them.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Aucoq

#17
March 06, 2013, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 06, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
This is very much in line with my view on the subject. Spooner makes some fantastic arguments that slavery by chain and slavery by law are different in name only. International travel has really opened my eyes to the "freedom" I was used to and the "freedom" people in other countries are used to. None of us are really free, but the US sure doesn't earn the title "Land of the Free" over and above most other nations. Its just propaganda at this point.

If they have to keep TELLING you you're free, you're not.

This is the quote of the year, in my humble opinion.
"All of the world's leading theologists agree only on the notion that God hates no-fault insurance."

Horrid and Sticky Llama Wrangler of Last Week's Forbidden Desire.

The Good Reverend Roger

#18
March 12, 2013, 04:01:30 PM Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 04:04:17 PM by The Good Reverend Roger
One basic problem is that people have been sold a new definition of freedom.  They have accepted that the first and foremost measure of freedom is commerce.  The critical mistake with that, of course, is that there is no "leading indicator" of freedom...You are free, or you are not.  And your ability to starve to death in a cottage industry, or the ability of magnates to keep every dime of income they have, isn't an indicator at all.

When considering the American revolution, for example, the taxation involved was not the cause for rebellion...The cause was that the colonists were being asked to shoulder all the responsibilities of their society (taxation, etc), while enjoying none of the rights (representation in parliament, etc).

This is further reinfored by the constitution and the bill of rights.  Commerce is largely mentioned only in article I, which allows the very regulation hated by those types who put "read the constitution" bumper stickers on their F350s..

As far as the bill of rights, in order, they go something like this:

Quote1.  You can say what you like, write what you like, and believe what you like, with no retribution from the government.

2.  An armed population is more condusive to freedom than a safe population.

3.  Your home is your own; the government may not use it as a barracks.

4.  Your property and your communications are private.  To interfere in them in any way, the government has to show probably cause.

5.  Your rights cannot be taken without due process.

6.  Due process shall consist of a fair trial.

7.  That fair trial shall include a jury.

8.  You have the right to not be tortured, nor held on ridiculous or out of proportion bail.

9.  You have rights that haven't been mentioned; your list of rights is inclusive.

10.  The government has no rights that haven't been mentioned; its powers are exclusive.

You will notice that there isn't much in there about commerce.  It mostly has to do with your right to rant your guts up, and the steps that must be taken to convict you of a crime.

Of course, nobody pays attention to that, anymore.  It's easier and feels safer to view liberty as a counting house stub, a cheap substitution of material goods - or rather, the implied promise of material goods, for actual freedom.

Which is, of course, a mess of pottage for the latter day Esau.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

#19
March 12, 2013, 04:11:44 PM
Damn. That was well put. Wonder what the HFT would say about that?

deadfong

#20
March 12, 2013, 04:15:44 PM
That is a really useful summary of the Bill of Rights.

Juana

#21
March 12, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: deadfong on March 12, 2013, 04:15:44 PM
That is a really useful summary of the Bill of Rights.
This. I like it, Rog. I hadn't thought much about how we see commerce as a mark of freedom.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Juana

#22
March 12, 2013, 04:45:14 PM
Can I post this elsewhere (with attribution, of course)?
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

#23
March 12, 2013, 04:45:45 PM
Quote from: Juana Go? on March 12, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: deadfong on March 12, 2013, 04:15:44 PM
That is a really useful summary of the Bill of Rights.
This. I like it, Rog. I hadn't thought much about how we see commerce as a mark of freedom.

Commerce is not freedom; it is maintenance.  It allows a life with enough excess production to allow freedom.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#24
March 12, 2013, 04:45:55 PM
Quote from: Juana Go? on March 12, 2013, 04:45:14 PM
Can I post this elsewhere (with attribution, of course)?

Certainly.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana

#25
March 12, 2013, 04:46:45 PM
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Anna Mae Bollocks

#26
March 12, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
I want to post it too. The Bubbas needs to see it in contemporary english they can (maybe) comprehend, at least before their "NOT SEAN HANNITY - REJECT!" mechanism kicks in.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#27
March 12, 2013, 06:05:38 PM
Anyone feel like formatting that into pretty, printable poster, along with Roger's comments about commerce?

I feel like it needs to go up around town.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."

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