On Hyphenated-Americans.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

HOW ABOUT THIS?  THINK FOR YOURSELF OR GTFO?

or maybe THINK FOR YOURSELF OR KILL ME.  Shouldn't be hard, I'm technically not human.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Yesterday one of the directors of the company I work for rather rudely ended a conversation on the hands-free car phone with "Steve I can't ever understand what the fuck you're saying in that whiny Scottish fucking accent" and hanging up.

The guy driving was absolutely livid, but all I really thought was "But I'm actually a Canadian, so I WIN".

Having dealt with exactly this kind of bullshit from people my entire life - for being Canadian in Scotland, being Scottish in Canada and for being Scottish/Canadian/Irish/South African/American/Dutch/Australian or any number of other things in England (seriously, people have assumed I have been each of those nationalities at one point or another), I tend to consider that yet another example of implacable ignorance is reason to ponder my eventual total victory over them.

I will prevail because I am none of those things, and never will be, but they will always be in box that's too tight and almost but not quite completely not impervious to sharp pointy things.

How would you feel if I did it, with a straight face?

Probably the same, but I tend to believe there is a difference between you and Dan The Man - you would do it just to see what happened, Dan does it because he cannot ever pretend to be anything other than an asshole.

You have brain flukes. Dans brain is all flukes.

So while I might feel the same, I wouldn't be so sure of myself.

[edit - changed Think to Feel, to actually answer the question properly]

No, I mean if I did it and MEANT it, after knowing you all these years.

[LMNO]

Not to butt in, but that would be extremely weird.

[Junkenstein]

Thus, I tend to view most cultural norms as very elaborate LARPing. Its nice and all, but what's it got to do with me? Do I *have* to play?

I understand this. It's ceremonial of sorts, Labels have always seemed to be a way to make yourself part of something larger or tag an external group with a quick name. To me, the former has elements of insecurity and delusion. The latter contains "the Other" and that can be twisted however suits.

It's a very monkey thing to want to have a past and history. Ties to things larger than yourself that make mortality easier to deal with. "I'm X and My children will be X'ers too" That level of cultural identity can become really crazy. For example, with all the bitching as a result of my confusion about why the idiots round here would blame the IRA of all people led the focus to X-Americans. That's a problem too as we're all still thinking of the US as "the Other" in this fashion. The flow of idiot nationals sending resources to idiots "Back home" and vice-versa has been occuring since "Greek Steve" of Troy said you could totally trust Greeks. Or something. A fucking while. It's every idiot that's the problem in this regard. Lets not even mention Israel either. Where was I?

Oh right. Labels.

I tend to treat people in the manner they act. If you insist on slapping a bunch of letters on yourself, fine. If you need to do this in order to talk about the weather, I reserve the right to add exactly 7 letters after my name.

Fun Game - Guess the 7 letters.

I have no idea what I've typed.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not to butt in, but that would be extremely weird.

Yeah, it is.  It's very fucking weird.  In the space of 7 days, I have had two people I've known for years essentially state that I am in fact a second-class human.  Then they get pissed because I got pissed, because I have contradicted the high epopts of blanket fart huffing.

Let's just try this one on for size:

YOU ARE EXCLUDED AND EJECTED FROM YOUR HERITAGE BECAUSE YOU ARE A YANKEE PIGFUCKER.

Yeah, you don't get to have any fucking roots.  You don't get to have any link to your ancestors.  You have been judged and found wanting.  PASSPORT ENTITLEMENT OR GTFO, YANK.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Thus, I tend to view most cultural norms as very elaborate LARPing. Its nice and all, but what's it got to do with me? Do I *have* to play?

I understand this. It's ceremonial of sorts, Labels have always seemed to be a way to make yourself part of something larger or tag an external group with a quick name. To me, the former has elements of insecurity and delusion. The latter contains "the Other" and that can be twisted however suits.

It's a very monkey thing to want to have a past and history. Ties to things larger than yourself that make mortality easier to deal with. "I'm X and My children will be X'ers too" That level of cultural identity can become really crazy. For example, with all the bitching as a result of my confusion about why the idiots round here would blame the IRA of all people led the focus to X-Americans. That's a problem too as we're all still thinking of the US as "the Other" in this fashion. The flow of idiot nationals sending resources to idiots "Back home" and vice-versa has been occuring since "Greek Steve" of Troy said you could totally trust Greeks. Or something. A fucking while. It's every idiot that's the problem in this regard. Lets not even mention Israel either. Where was I?

Oh right. Labels.

I tend to treat people in the manner they act. If you insist on slapping a bunch of letters on yourself, fine. If you need to do this in order to talk about the weather, I reserve the right to add exactly 7 letters after my name.

Fun Game - Guess the 7 letters.

I have no idea what I've typed.

NOT THE POINT.

POINT:  SOME PEOPLE CAN BE EXCLUDED BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO A POPULATION SUBSET THAT IS SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE TO MARGINALIZE.

[Junkenstein]

I'm amazed there was even a point in that mess.

Fuck I'm tired.

[Payne]

This is why "Causes" are inherently self-defeating.

Because the True Believers always move in, pull blankets over their heads and breathe their own farts, until they get giddy and extremist enough to start believing that the ends justify the means, and that their newfound zealotry means they have to be exclusionary.  And that hatred or disdain towards a population subset is the best way to show people how committed they are to the cause.  It's instant credibility.

"Passport entitlement or GTFO".  WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

Generally: An attempt to break down a confusing tangle of socio-historic cultural identities as expressed by some group or other that has come to represent in microcosm everything that was unjustly and unfairly levelled at the individual stating it. If only those who are entitled to carry an Irish passport can call themselves Irish-Anything, then perhaps fewer people would be inclined to feel guilt over their emigre status, donate money to their own cause, fund a bombing or two and suddenly you are shunned because your last name is a little too close to that of an IRA hitmans.

Specifically: Because Pixie should probably have woken up a bit and thought on it before posting that reply, and then perhaps could have stood back a little to see that she'd pulled one of your triggers as much as you'd pulled one of hers. I do note that she has a lot to say on the topic as I write this, but it is seemingly my turn to hog the internet connection so she's not getting to say anything directly at this time with the benefit of having sat back and thought about it. I think she's still annoyed, but not in the same way or about the same thing, and maybe in a slightly better way.

[Payne]

Yesterday one of the directors of the company I work for rather rudely ended a conversation on the hands-free car phone with "Steve I can't ever understand what the fuck you're saying in that whiny Scottish fucking accent" and hanging up.

The guy driving was absolutely livid, but all I really thought was "But I'm actually a Canadian, so I WIN".

Having dealt with exactly this kind of bullshit from people my entire life - for being Canadian in Scotland, being Scottish in Canada and for being Scottish/Canadian/Irish/South African/American/Dutch/Australian or any number of other things in England (seriously, people have assumed I have been each of those nationalities at one point or another), I tend to consider that yet another example of implacable ignorance is reason to ponder my eventual total victory over them.

I will prevail because I am none of those things, and never will be, but they will always be in box that's too tight and almost but not quite completely not impervious to sharp pointy things.

How would you feel if I did it, with a straight face?

Probably the same, but I tend to believe there is a difference between you and Dan The Man - you would do it just to see what happened, Dan does it because he cannot ever pretend to be anything other than an asshole.

You have brain flukes. Dans brain is all flukes.

So while I might feel the same, I wouldn't be so sure of myself.

[edit - changed Think to Feel, to actually answer the question properly]

No, I mean if I did it and MEANT it, after knowing you all these years.

Because I like and respect you, it would pain me deeply. I would feel remorse, and to be honest when I got to a safe place I would probably cry.

Betrayal hurts a lot more than ignorance and Jingoism.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This is why "Causes" are inherently self-defeating.

Because the True Believers always move in, pull blankets over their heads and breathe their own farts, until they get giddy and extremist enough to start believing that the ends justify the means, and that their newfound zealotry means they have to be exclusionary.  And that hatred or disdain towards a population subset is the best way to show people how committed they are to the cause.  It's instant credibility.

"Passport entitlement or GTFO".  WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

Generally: An attempt to break down a confusing tangle of socio-historic cultural identities as expressed by some group or other that has come to represent in microcosm everything that was unjustly and unfairly levelled at the individual stating it. If only those who are entitled to carry an Irish passport can call themselves Irish-Anything, then perhaps fewer people would be inclined to feel guilt over their emigre status, donate money to their own cause, fund a bombing or two and suddenly you are shunned because your last name is a little too close to that of an IRA hitmans.

Stop and think about primates a bit.  Is that reaction more likely to do that, or more likely to make people DEMAND to be whatever it is you're telling them they aren't?  The politics of exclusion lead to the aneristic principle, EVERY TIME.  And that wasn't the fucking point to begin with.  The point was to keep the filthy fucking yanks out.

Specifically: Because Pixie should probably have woken up a bit and thought on it before posting that reply, and then perhaps could have stood back a little to see that she'd pulled one of your triggers as much as you'd pulled one of hers. I do note that she has a lot to say on the topic as I write this, but it is seemingly my turn to hog the internet connection so she's not getting to say anything directly at this time with the benefit of having sat back and thought about it. I think she's still annoyed, but not in the same way or about the same thing, and maybe in a slightly better way.

Oh, I pulled a trigger, did I?  Yeah, objecting to turds dripping down the back of my neck is TOTALLY pulling a trigger.  Sort of like how a woman fighting back against a rapist is "just getting into it", I suppose.  Glaring difference in the level of abuse, but the principle is the same.

I mean, Jesus Christ, look how I was dressed!

But, then again, I am yankee scum, and can't be expected to understand the finer points of these sorts of things.  My knuckles drag on the ground, and I've got food down the front of my shirt.  Ook.

[Payne]

Not to butt in, but that would be extremely weird.

Yeah, it is.  It's very fucking weird.  In the space of 7 days, I have had two people I've known for years essentially state that I am in fact a second-class human.  Then they get pissed because I got pissed, because I have contradicted the high epopts of blanket fart huffing.

Which two people?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Because I like and respect you, it would pain me deeply. I would feel remorse, and to be honest when I got to a safe place I would probably cry.

Betrayal hurts a lot more than ignorance and Jingoism.

Yep.  And my reaction is to harden my heart against the betrayer.  Getting scars is no shame; getting them twice from the same person is just stupidity.

[Payne]

This is why "Causes" are inherently self-defeating.

Because the True Believers always move in, pull blankets over their heads and breathe their own farts, until they get giddy and extremist enough to start believing that the ends justify the means, and that their newfound zealotry means they have to be exclusionary.  And that hatred or disdain towards a population subset is the best way to show people how committed they are to the cause.  It's instant credibility.

"Passport entitlement or GTFO".  WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

Generally: An attempt to break down a confusing tangle of socio-historic cultural identities as expressed by some group or other that has come to represent in microcosm everything that was unjustly and unfairly levelled at the individual stating it. If only those who are entitled to carry an Irish passport can call themselves Irish-Anything, then perhaps fewer people would be inclined to feel guilt over their emigre status, donate money to their own cause, fund a bombing or two and suddenly you are shunned because your last name is a little too close to that of an IRA hitmans.

Stop and think about primates a bit.  Is that reaction more likely to do that, or more likely to make people DEMAND to be whatever it is you're telling them they aren't?  The politics of exclusion lead to the aneristic principle, EVERY TIME.  And that wasn't the fucking point to begin with.  The point was to keep the filthy fucking yanks out.

Specifically: Because Pixie should probably have woken up a bit and thought on it before posting that reply, and then perhaps could have stood back a little to see that she'd pulled one of your triggers as much as you'd pulled one of hers. I do note that she has a lot to say on the topic as I write this, but it is seemingly my turn to hog the internet connection so she's not getting to say anything directly at this time with the benefit of having sat back and thought about it. I think she's still annoyed, but not in the same way or about the same thing, and maybe in a slightly better way.

Oh, I pulled a trigger, did I?  Yeah, objecting to turds dripping down the back of my neck is TOTALLY pulling a trigger.  Sort of like how a woman fighting back against a rapist is "just getting into it", I suppose.  Glaring difference in the level of abuse, but the principle is the same.

I mean, Jesus Christ, look how I was dressed!

But, then again, I am yankee scum, and can't be expected to understand the finer points of these sorts of things.  My knuckles drag on the ground, and I've got food down the front of my shirt.  Ook.

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm saying that this is what I believe Pixie feels. You asked me a question and I answered as best I could.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm saying that this is what I believe Pixie feels. You asked me a question and I answered as best I could.

Well, there's an obvious solution for this, then.  If I cannot speak to her without pulling her triggers and all.

[Payne]

Because I like and respect you, it would pain me deeply. I would feel remorse, and to be honest when I got to a safe place I would probably cry.

Betrayal hurts a lot more than ignorance and Jingoism.

Yep.  And my reaction is to harden my heart against the betrayer.  Getting scars is no shame; getting them twice from the same person is just stupidity.

I am not that way, and sometimes I wish I was.

I'm actually a genuinely scared, sensitive and submissive fellow with too much going on in my brain and no way to ever really say what I really feel honestly.

I would probably just cry and never be able to bear to speak to you, or someone else I care for as much who did the same thing.

~~~Payne: Not such a tough guy, after all.